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Messages - TLEILAXU

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1
The Unholy Consult / Re: "Kellhus is dead, but not done."
« on: September 17, 2018, 07:47:32 pm »
I think it's reasonable to take the statement about passing no further at face value, especially regarding later quotes such as "you seek to starve the Gods" etc.
However, as Smiler also mentioned, the dreams add uncertainty about all this, especially given the possible ambiguity regarding whether it's actually GilgaŲl we see or Ajokli. I actually asked Bakker about this in the AMA and this was his answer
Quote
The Trickster is as eternal as any of the other Gods.

2
General Earwa / Re: Are we still on Moenghus Sr TTT?
« on: September 10, 2018, 06:42:28 pm »
No, I think it is more likely that Moe died because he misapprehended the nature of the Outside and how influential it could be.
I think MoŽnghus' main mistake is not realizing that occasionally, the God does wake up..

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"Men cannot see this because of their native incapaci≠ties. They attend only to what confirms their fears and their desires, and what contradicts they either dismiss or overlook. They are bent upon affirmation. The priests crow over this or that incident, while they pass over all others in silence. I have watched, my son, for years I have counted, and the world shows no favour. It is perfectly indifferent to the tantrums of men.

"The God sleeps... It has ever been thus. Only by striv≠ing for the Absolute may we awaken Him. Meaning. Purpose. These words name not something given... no, they name our task."

3
Quote
TLEILAXU: DNA is relatively inert, it contains only instructions for the machines that read it to make more machines.

Ehh, I can quibble but you are mostly right. Fine, RNA then! :D For those who are not familiar with this topic, this has to do with a debate on the origin of life. Specifically, the question is which came first, the code (nucleic acid) or the machinery (protein)? As things stand now, the code (DNA) is, as TLEILAXU says, mostly inert; it contains the information on how, when, and in what quantity to build the machinery of life (proteins); the machines (proteins) do the works of life, including making more DNA, but contain no transmittable information. Right now they work in a perfect partnership. Most people, however, believe that it's improbable that both should arise simultaneously. One proposed solution is that in the early days of life, a generalist did both (encode information and act on it), such as RNA, and only later this job was split into two and handed to two specialists (DNA and protein).

So when an RNA molecule transmits information to itself and modifies itself, is it not in sense acting both as a subject and an object? Is not the world SEALED AGAINST THE OUTSIDE?!  ;D
It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing right? They could've co-evolved. There's a nice pop-sci article at quanta magazine about this https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-end-of-the-rna-world-is-near-biochemists-argue-20171219/

4
The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 30, 2018, 05:01:01 am »
Perhaps the most important thing to be answered still has to be what really happened to ShaeŲnanra, but beyond that I won't be too bothered if things aren't answered. The Inverse Fire for example, has an in my opinion pretty much straight forward definition in the glossary and on top of the things we learn from the main story and The False Sun, I don't think we really need that much more.
If the books ended with TUC I wouldn't be too sad, since the ending heavily hints at a Consult victory and it goes in hand with the whole crash space stuff, but obviously I'm looking forward to seeing more of The Mutilated and hopefully also some Aurax bits.
My biggest fear is that now that the main story is over that Bakker will three-pound-brain the books up too much. Some of his other books, e.g. Neuropath, suffer from that.

5
The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:39:08 pm »
FWIW, the Gods cant see an end, they believe they are eternal.
Or maybe the God intends to destroy creation at some point, hence the "doom outside of doom" line.

Quote from: Wilshire
"The soul that encounters it goes not further", the whole still-born child thing ... I'd say that this can still be true, just that once the NG was blow up, it released the souls.
Yeah this is what I'm going to go with.

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Where did Nau see the IF, was that False Son or Akka dream sequence? I'd be interested to see what he says about it either way.
Akka dream sequence. I vaguely remember the description of fire being reflected off the floor.

6
The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:20:28 pm »
A thought occured to me; Kellhus pretty much states that the hell witnessed through the Inverse Fire is something that's already happened/happening, because hell is outside the time spectrum of the world. He sees himself as something, while the Mutiliated and rest of the Consult (and I think, pretty much anyone who has looked at the Inverse Fire) witness themselves as being damned in hell.

So, my question is - if they're already in hell, then does that mean their eventual goal of shutting off the world is doomed to failure? Perhaps, not entirely, but they themselves will perish before they can escape damnation.
Eternity changes and can be changed, as both incarnations of the White-Luck Warrior found out.
This.

Kellhus explaining to Proyas that The Consult/TNG eventually wins if not that day, complicates further. But good catch, CF.
I'm still puzzled by that statement, and Bakker's answer in the AMA does not make it any more clear.

I forget, but Kellhus explains in the read that they have to end up winning otherwise there weren't be some current thing/condition in present day. Something about the gods maybe.
I think the reason is, the gods can't see beyond the Eschaton/end, the NG *is* that end, the gods actions demonstrate their a blindness to the NG, ergo the NG will rise at some point in the future.
I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, how can the Gods see and end related to something they can't see?

Everyone that sees themselves as Damned is in fact destined to be in hell - its a forgone conclusion. However, those that do not see themselves in the IF are the ones that survive.
Not according to the definition in the glossary for The Inverse Fire:
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Subparticular intentional field machine linking individual observational frames of reference to their eternal fate in the Outside. ...


Quote from: Wilshire
That the world is exterminated, that all men and nonmen, except maybe the 144k, are killed and their souls end up in hell
The souls that die during the No-God don't pass into the Outside IIRC.

Quote from: Wilshire
What would the IF look like to someone who wasn't destined to be in hell? Perhaps its entirely invisible. An empty ring. Nothing.
Nau-Cayuti saw the Inverse Fire, but I can't remember if he gazed into it.

7
Second, there's one interesting line (of course there is; this is like scripture and we all enjoy quoting our own prooftext). One of the mutilated said to Kellhus "... A code lies buried in the ebb and flow of life on this World. The more deaths, the brighter this code burns, the more Ark can read..." Code? My mind immediately leapt to DNA. Then a bit later they started talking about "collapsing the subject and object." Hmmm. What about DNA? Is that not both a subject and object simultaneously? Does it not direct and organize life but also engineer its own construction and change?
I think it has more to do with the Outside. Something about the passage of souls. It's a cryptic passage for sure.
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Does it not direct and organize life but also engineer its own construction and change?
DNA is relatively inert, it contains only instructions for the machines that read it to make more machines.

8
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 11:54:12 pm »
Almost feels deliberate. In the first account his mother is strangled to death, in the other it almost sounds like she is beaten to death with rocks etc.

9
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 11:21:48 pm »
Cnauir mother had a baby by Moe. They killed the baby and his mother for bearing a child of Moe's. The baby was not of the People.
What sex was the baby?

10
The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 10:39:52 pm »
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Images, stark and dry, of the Steppe assailed him. The other women tearing at his mother's hair, clawing at her face, clubbing her with rocks, stabbing her with sticks. Mother. A bawling infant hoisted from her yaksh, tossed into the all-cleansing fire--his blond-haired half-brother. The stone faces of the men turning away from his look . . .

From TDTCB chapter 12:
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Then, two seasons later, the other women strangled his mother for giving birth to a blonde girl. As they raised her corpse on the vulture poles, he began to understand what had actually happened.

Can anybody explain this?

11
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A thread of silver light, swaying across the spiralling heights, flashing across the Carapace. A crack that made ears bleed. Everywhere, raining debris. The anguished wail of innumerable inhuman throats. The whirlwind undone, like the smoke of a snuffed candle, spinning into oblivion.
"Swaying across the spiralling heights"? Curious word usage, I'm assuming Anaxophus might've been unsteady in his hands. If it were not for the "flashing across the Carapace" part you might almost think the Heron Spear was a missile weapon and not a deathray.

12
The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 23, 2018, 07:35:35 pm »
A thought occured to me; Kellhus pretty much states that the hell witnessed through the Inverse Fire is something that's already happened/happening, because hell is outside the time spectrum of the world. He sees himself as something, while the Mutiliated and rest of the Consult (and I think, pretty much anyone who has looked at the Inverse Fire) witness themselves as being damned in hell.

So, my question is - if they're already in hell, then does that mean their eventual goal of shutting off the world is doomed to failure? Perhaps, not entirely, but they themselves will perish before they can escape damnation.
Eternity changes and can be changed, as both incarnations of the White-Luck Warrior found out.
This.

Kellhus explaining to Proyas that The Consult/TNG eventually wins if not that day, complicates further. But good catch, CF.
I'm still puzzled by that statement, and Bakker's answer in the AMA does not make it any more clear.

13
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TDTCB Chapter 16
« on: August 20, 2018, 02:19:07 am »
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The thought struck CnaŁir that Dunyain monks might be even more inhuman than he had thought. What if things such as truth and meaning had no meaning for them? What if all they did was move and move, like something reptilian, snaking through circumstance after circumstance, consuming soul after soul for the sake of consumption alone? The thought made his scalp prickle.
Again, some sick foreshadowing here. I also like how it brings both Ajokli and the No-God to mind.

14
General Misc. / Re: The world we live in...
« on: August 20, 2018, 02:05:46 am »
Try saving it as jpg instead of png in mspaint, or alternatively try resizing it.

15
The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: The Warrior Prophet
« on: August 19, 2018, 10:39:33 pm »
Are people still up for the re-read?
I'm in chapter 16 of TDTCB right now, catching up. I'll get there eventually, hopefully in a couple o' days.

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