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Messages - Artsuhtaraz

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The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: August 26, 2017, 01:07:33 am »
You just said it wasn't the finale. Make up your damn mind! ;) 

Ha! You're right.  I really shouldn't post after a few beers.  (I drink some pretty strong ales.)  My point was that TUC had resolution (which even portions of a story can have, before the end).  TGO, on the other hand, didn't feel like it had any resolution whatsoever, just a point where the narrative stopped.

Oft-criticized segments such as the Great Ordeal's Cannibal Sodomy Holocaust, I think, would carry more weight were the descent into madness not so seemingly sudden as the carving into two novels makes it feel in the absence of a re-read immediately prior.
I didn't realize these were oft-criticized.  I loved those segments.   

The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: August 24, 2017, 02:03:04 am »
It subverts the Epic Fantasy Grand Finale just as well as the characters and story have so far subverted every trope and cliche in fantasy writing.
I do recognize that there are several significant subversions of fantasy tropes, but not "every."  (This is not as much a criticism of Bakker's work as a criticism of the hyperbole surrounding it.)  This applies to his "Epic Fantasy Grand Finale," too, since TUC isn't the end.  Every series has reversals of fortune.  If you'd stopped reading after Morgoth stole the Silmarils, you could say the same thing about Tolkien.  So we don't have enough information yet to determine if this is actually as subversive as you're claiming.     

What I will say is, TUC suffers far more being the second half of a split novel than TGO suffered being the first half. You can positively feel the absence in places. (Probably less impactful if you've read TGO obsessively numerous times, or had opportunity for a re-read shortly before TUC's release.) The one ridiculously long novel would have been better, financial realities of modern publishing be damned.

I didn't feel the splitting of two novels as much for TUC as for TGO.  The episodic feeling of the latter can't be a criticism of the former, since it's the finale.  It would have ended at the same place regardless (I assume) and thus suffered exactly the criticisms being levied now. 

Would have liked a bit more time with the New Consult, Kellhus and the Mutilated waxing philosophical about their opposing agendas, rather than a curt, "Whatcha gonna do? Gnosis goes one way, Tekne the other!" analysis of the differences.
I agree.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: August 24, 2017, 01:37:42 am »
Bakker put us through the most vile celebration imaginable, and the fact that it becomes tedious after a while is a statement in itself. It's pointless and glorious and transcendent.
Good point.  It's not just about being vile for pure shock value, but also about mind/body dualism, the "holiness" in transcending our subjective selves to the objective world, of existing as paradoxical beings-in-the-world, our finitude, etc.

If Meppa doesn't play a big part in the follow-up, then there was no point in letting him survive Esme's chorae.
I kept thinking that it's a great way to present Kellhus's POV without actually doing it.  It's a narrative device.  This allows us to be observers even when no one else is present (often so that we can be justifiably mislead regarding Kellhus's own thoughts/nature/state).    [shit ... I was thinking of Malowebi, not Meppa!  Sorry for the confusion.  I'm confused.  Too many names.]


Introduce Yourself / Aspiring novelist from Kevin's Watch
« on: August 24, 2017, 12:40:10 am »
Hello everyone!

Before I learned of Bakker through fellow Watcher Brinn (goes by another name here), it was easier to feel discouraged about working on a philosophical epic fantasy novel for the past 20 years, in virtual obscurity.  As Tolkien has said of his own work, my tale grew in the telling.  Now it has expanded into at least 6 books, the first of which will need to be broken into 2 or 3, depending on how much I can whittle down the 400,000 words I've got for book 1 so far.  Watching it grow has been not as much exhilarating as it is depressing.  (Sorry, couldn't resist ... 8) ... Madness gets it.)     

After learning about Bakker's experiences, I've been encouraged by his example.  Inexplicably, there appears to be an audience out there for unabashedly philosophical, thought-provoking fantasy!  Who would have guessed?  You crazy fuckers rock.  I've only been a lurker for a few weeks, so I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone.

Until the disappointing TUC, I was having difficulty deciding if Bakker was my 1st or 3rd choice for favorite fantasy author (you can probably guess the other two :) ).  I'm extremely impressed with his vision, prose, and intellectual rigor.  I'm moved by his evocative, conflicted, and enigmatic characters.  I'm jealous of the things he does that I could never do, but can't wait to show you all the things that are uniquely me. 

It's a wonderful time, for fantasy authors and fans alike! 

[Zarathustra" was taken.  I'm a mirror of my Watch self here.] 

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