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Messages - MSJ

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The Unholy Consult / Re: What-if scenario
« on: March 20, 2018, 09:48:43 pm »
Quote from:  ToT
It might depend on what happens regarding the Mutilated's reaction to Kellhus' death, whether and how they change their strategy and how long it takes them to do so.
Wilshire and I seem to be in agreement that if Kayûtas, Serwa or both of them tried to take control of the Ordeal, they'd be rather effective as leaders (though yes, none of them is as powerful as Kellhus, and there would still be significant casualties). Might be a matter of how quickly they'd manage to get the Ordeal under control in the fallout from Kellhus' death versus the impact of said death on the Mutilated's plans (as I mentioned above)

I'm not well versed in military tactics. But, in this setting, everything hinges on Kellhus getting in the GR. No Kellhus, what would Serwa or Kayutas do (while I agree both would be competent leaders). As you remember, the Yamulati Sranc were just entering the fray when resumption happens. No resumption, and pure numbers destroy the Ordeal to a man. Kellhus knew this. Knew the Only way to win was take the head off the snake.

The Unholy Consult / Re: What-if scenario
« on: March 20, 2018, 04:30:47 pm »
Quote from:  ToT
What Wilshire said, MSJ, this alternate timeline would only diverge from canon around the time of the Last Whelming (or immediately before). So Dagliash has already happened as in canon. Feel free to create your own thread about the ramifications of the nuke going off without Kellhus there, though, there is some discussion to be had there too. :)

Sorry, both of you.

Anyhow, I don't see how events would be any better with Kellhus already dead. Serwa wouldn't get past Mek and the Soggomatic Gate. At this point no one is close to Kellhus in terms of power. The Ordeal fails and fails rather more quickly.

Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« on: March 19, 2018, 11:42:01 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
I'm going to seriously have to go through your post history and see your 'book reviews' (or whatever we can call you're one line recommendations like this one) and see if I can rule them out or not.

Is be the worse reviewer ever. I would spoil the books. I don't know how to go into it without telling it. Here's a few must read series.

The Unhewn Throne (low magic)
Tower of Babel (low magic}
Traitor Son Cycle (high magic)

In that order. Seriously, TUT is full of mystery and intrigue. I'm on book 3 (the last) and I have no clue how this is gonna go. I have no complaints, from character, plot, prose or any other thing someone might bitch about. Just excellent.

The Unholy Consult / Re: What-if scenario
« on: March 19, 2018, 11:12:49 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Interestingly enough, I think TGO had a higher chance of succeeding without Kellhus.

Really? Not a chance at all. They would have even made it to Dagliash. Kellhus saved the army by Gnosis pounding his way through Sranc. They would be been done. Not to mention, no Kellhus, they storm Dagliash old fashion style and boom, no more Ordeal. Your kidding yourself...

I've been saying it for a long time, Kellhus is the man in he speaks to. In his little niche in the Outside or wherever. He's still in the game.

Quote from:  H
I think it stands to reason though that it would be the case for the nature of the Outside-Inside relationship to be different for placed besides Eärwa.  If it wasn't, how did the Progenitors get so far but not realize the Outside was real?  It seems very unlikely that the gods can function the same everywhere else, when we know that Eärwa is the exception.

Spot on. They didn't even know about sorcery when they landed on Earwa. Planet X (now the name for Inchoroi homeland) doesn't have to be connected to the Outside for their souls to go there. Earwa just has a DIRECT link is all. The progenitors are us, Bakker all but confirmed this. So, it's telling that their world is just like ours. No gods interfering or manifesting. No sorcery. But, most of us believe our soul will go somewhere when we're dead.

It's like the hadron collider, who knows what secrets of the Universe might come from that thing. That thing scares me, its digging too deep, just like the progenitors.

Really, I don't see how what I'm suggestion is hard to comprehend. Planet X had no direct link to the Outside, Gods couldn't meddle. Progenitors went searching for a planet with a direct link after they dug too deep and found the IF. Ajokli all the way down is waaaay more far-fetched then Kellhus still acting upon the TTT. I liked that post by the way, and would make for a great story. A true turn of events. We all knew the whirlwind was coming, not that big of a surprise.

General Misc. / Re: March Madness
« on: March 18, 2018, 09:40:25 pm »
Quote from:  BFK
Really sorry about the Michigan State loss, MSJ. Talk about salt and butchery....Anagke is truly pissed at you. First Arizona.....

No worries. I've never won a bracket league before. No I'm lying. I won a few years back when UNC won, a money league. Still haven't seen that money

General Misc. / Re: March Madness
« on: March 18, 2018, 09:20:39 pm »
Quote from:  BFK
No, I saw nothing. Just half-assed intuition and an SEC/Kentucky bias. That's how you avoid the Apocalypse.

Ughh, and to think I used to like you....

General Misc. / Re: March Madness
« on: March 18, 2018, 04:40:07 am »
Just checking out possible points and I still have a real chance. Only two people picked MSU, I believe.

General Misc. / Re: March Madness
« on: March 17, 2018, 11:37:49 pm »
Hey, I picked Butler!

Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« on: March 16, 2018, 11:06:43 pm »
Finished The Emperors Blades and almost done with the 2nd in the trilogy of The Unhewn Throne, The Providence of Fire(7 and 8 )

In all seriousness, best fantasy trilogy I've read since PoN. Plenty of intrigue, low magic, great characters and plot.

Quote from:  Wilshire
don't get this part though.

Why? Why don't you get this. If Gods do exist in our world/UNIVERSE, there is no connection here, same as with the Inchoroi's home planet. Its not that hard to comprehend. The progenitors delved too deep, created a looking glass into hell. Something, in sure many of the scientists around here would be ecstatic for. Maybe not their damnation, yet again, who knows what Mimara or Esme would see looking at the IF.

General Misc. / Re: March Madness
« on: March 16, 2018, 08:01:05 pm »
BFK, just started. Zona hurt though.

Quote from:  H
I think the fundamental question is, can a mundane object interact with the Outside?  My intuition is yes.

Also, it just seems implausible to me that Ajokli could interact with the Inchoroi through the Inverse Fire, but could not gain entrance to the Ark and only realized it was there by the void it left.

H, a lot don't makes in world or Bakkers extra comments don't help it out. But, its well thought out and maybe this will be Wilshire's whale. I give him benefit of doubt.

Though I am also not Ajokli all the way down theories. I don't even think the Circumfix was first contact. I believe Kellhus in his niche in the Outside. I believe contact came the Diamos.

Quote from:  Wilshire
Can you explain damnation without souls and Gods please? I really don't understand where you're coming from still.
How can the universe be meaningless with those things? Or are you saying souls and damnation only exists on Earwa?

No, we're not saying all souls don't end up in the Outside. What were saying is, and this completely wipes out your theory, is that Earwa is the only planet with a connection to the Outside. That's why its impossible for Ajokli to be the creator of the IF,it was discovered on the Inchoroi's home planet, one without a connection to the Outside. So, they set out to find the "promised land", Earwa where the was a link to the Outside to shut out the Gods. Magic isn't a reasonable answer Wilshire.

Quote from:  TLEILAXU
Actually my thought process was more like I had to insult you to not be too harsh on MSJ (not because of preferential treatment but to help him see the wrongness of his argument). Not sure if it makes sense.

No, quite simply, Tleilaxu doesn't know how to act. He gets mad at me when he says he would kill innocent children with his own hands. Tleilaxu's humor isn't so fucking funny! ;)

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