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Messages - MSJ

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1
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: Today at 03:27:00 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
In TUC we see that its literally Kellhus that is being shown to Celmomas. Not sure what further room for interpretation there is.

Sorry to be picky, but that was TGO.

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The prophesy foretells of the end of the world (ie Anasurimbor will return), and it also says when (When Seswatha dies). Of those two clauses, the Anasurimbor returning seems largely inconsequential to me.

Which interests the he'll out of me, because Seswatha still lives through Akka, probably Serwa and maybe a handful of other Mandati...

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2) So who did truly give the Prophecy to Celmomas?
IMO, I think its Ajokli.
Probably interesting to note that much of the confusion might be coming from the fact that until that scene where we saw the god in TUC, Bakker hadn't decided who it was. I say that not to use Bakker as supporting evidence either way, but to point out that there are references in the text for it being either Gilgaol or Ajokli throughout. Sound arguments can be made for either case.
It being Ajokli fits better into my overall view of the narrative, so unless I overturn most everything in my head regarding the story, I'll be sticking with that :)

I can see where your coming from. But, I think people confuse the four horns of Ajokli, with the four horns on the crown Gilgoal wears. Plus, as I said earlier, Gilgoal took Celmommas as Yatwer took Sorweel, as a faithful adherent to the God, Gilgoal.

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As for  Nau-Cayuti's soul - I tend to think that Celmomas was dying rapidly of bloodloss and likely going into shock and/or in extreme pain. A grieving father on his deathbed. I don't think the Gods showed him anything regarding Nau.

Agree 100%. Celmomas completely misinterpreted, because of his love for Nayu and hoping Nayu loved him back. A lot lost in translation between Seswatha and Celmommas.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: Today at 12:55:25 pm »
Quote from:  H
This all presumes that it really was Nau-Cayuti who appears to Celmommas.  Akka's vision gives us the perspective that perhaps it was not though and was Kellhus somehow creating his own prophecy.  Admittedly that doesn't make much sense, but neither does Nau-Cayuti being able to appear to Celmommas, seeing as to how his soul is at the "heart" of the No-God.

K. Here's how I look at it. Gods can see all of time, yet can't see the NO-God (NC&Kel). But, the do see Kellhus and blame him for the end of the world because he is central to it all. Its like during the 1st Apocalypse when the Gods blamed it all on men and their wars. They had no clue that the TNG and his Tekne weapons were apart of it. Same deal, methinks.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: Today at 09:30:58 am »
Quote from:  Cuttlefish
But how could any of the Gods warn Celmomas about the end of the world, when they themselves can't understand it? Unless it is the literal end of the world, in which case, I don't think it's safe to say that the Anasurimbor of the Prophecy has been revealed as the world, well, still exists.

The way its been interpreted to me, and its backed up in the books (I will go in further detail later as I don't have much time), is that the 100 can see all of time. Its like they know what will happen and when. They see time as (linear I believe, could be wrong, not my strong suit.), so they knew Kellhus would be involved in the end of the world. And, from their point of view (the Gods) time must stop. Does it mean the end of the world, or the end of the Gods (100)? Your guess is as good as mine.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 13, 2017, 11:43:21 pm »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
I want to think it was Gilga÷l sending the message retro-actively, but that particular moment was before Sorweel had been killed so in that moment of eternity, Ajokli was still going to be stopped AFAIK.
Also, I don't believe Nau-Cayuti joined the Consult. Remember that the Gods are blind to him, so I doubt he would've had any particular fate in the afterlife. They probably forced him in just like they did Kelmomas.

+1

That's more or less the same as what I was trying to convey.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 13, 2017, 11:25:00 pm »
Wow, loaded question Cuttlefish.

The Anasurrimbor that was showed during the dream, through Celmommas was Kellhus. No, Kelmommas is who became the No-God, hence the end of the world. But, since the Gods was not in the Golden Room, I figure them, plus the whole of Earwa believe Kellhus is the No-God.

If you reread the dream at the end of TGO, NC was not converted, or even seemed to be bothered by the IF. He was simply shoved in the Carapace. And, he worked.

As far as who gave the prophecy to Celmommas, we have two choices.

1: Ajokli, though I'm not to sure about this. People always go back to the four horns. Because of the four horns.

2. Gilgoal: who I think to be who it was. Two reasons. One, after giving the prophecy, Gilgoal took Celmommas the same way Yatwer took Sorweel. As, Celmommas was an adherent to Gilgoal. Two, four horns. I think Ajoki has four horns coming out his head. I believe Gilgoals four horns are apart of his crown. I could be wrong, that's my interpretation.

3: Almost forgot this. In the Golden Room, the mutilated make a remark that Ajokli is hiding from the other 100. So, I can't see Ajokli forewarning Celmommas about that end of the world.

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General Earwa / Re: TSACast (SA Podcast)
« on: December 13, 2017, 07:45:42 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Yup. Really important to have new people on the casts or the conversations end up being very similar.

Exactly. And those out there wanting to do one, but a little shy, fear not. Everyone is cordial and once it gets going its like being in a pub, bullshitting.

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Literature / Re: Yearly Targets (2017) - Totals and Specifics
« on: December 11, 2017, 12:52:45 am »
Scratch that, going back to Coldfire Trilogy.

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General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: December 10, 2017, 12:09:12 am »
Quote from:  Dora Vee
Griffith not good enough for you? :p

Nat at all. I know your love for Proyas and was trying to be nice is all.

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General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: December 09, 2017, 10:42:31 pm »
Quote from:  Dora Vee
:)

Now click on that, save it, and use as your avatar here. I personally requested Q too post that for you!

Cheers,
MSJ

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Literature / Re: Yearly Targets (2017) - Totals and Specifics
« on: December 09, 2017, 11:48:19 am »
Finished The Fall of Dragons (35). Great series. I have to put this up in my top ten, maybe top5 series ever. Its that good.

Digging back into The Gap Cycle.

11
Quote from:  TaoHorror
Now after reading through all of this, I see hints/evidence from Baker, et al that either could be possible. Even the original insertant reference could be stretched to still refer to someone from Earwa before NC ...

Not buying that.

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by all appearances, to me, it seems TNG was used throughout the galaxy, it broke on its way into Earwa with the "original insertant" no longer living, they repair TNG and then find a lucky candidate to power/use it.

Imho, this is what most assuredly happened. Aurax and Aurang are the sole survivors of a technology advanced race. They weren't in charge of the Tekne or the NG. They didn't even understand it. Thats why it took so long to ressurect and needed the aide of Shae. Its also why I took Bakker's answer to mean they "found" a way to accomplish at least part of the NG's function. As I said, I don't see what else you can take away from that Q&A.

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General Earwa / Re: TSACast (SA Podcast)
« on: December 08, 2017, 06:39:36 pm »
Hit me up Boss. Bit, if'n we can get some new faces, of take a back seat a listen and blab on for maybe a few minutes.

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http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1865.0

I don't how you Can't get that from his answers and the question. My perspective, I mean. I can't see it any other way, that's just me though.

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Lol. I don't think he's a dick. I just think if he doesn't have something fleshed out, he'll toss you scraps and expect you to be satisfied.  When its all too fucking complicated, to make sense to my tiny brain.

The haloes. You know where I think he ducked up and can't reckon an answer? The skin-spy. How can the skin-spy recreate it? Then someone as holy as Mimara having haloes, but different color? I think any answer he gives will breakdown because an unsouled being had the effect. Just my opinion.

No, I'm not conflating two seperate events. What I took from his answer was that the Inchies found out something they could use, in part, with the No-God. Two separate events, sure. But, his answer makes it seem if they found a way to accomplish the no babies part, that's the implication I got from the question and the answer. 

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By the way, I don't mean to insult Bakker's intelligence, I think that's unquestioned. Its just I don't think he ever expected this level of scrutiny. He has ALOT of cool ideas, that never get fleshed out. "No questions about haloes!", to me, is a misdirection on his part. He ain't answering it until he has the proper answer.

I'm sorry to put it this way. But, I've been around a lot of very intelligent human beings and when they underestimate you, they think they can Bullshit you. That's my vibe. I think everything from the metaphysical to the physical is intentionally vague and contradictory that he thought we'd be confounded and overlook, or forget. Thats the only way I can reckon most of his answers to questions, against the text. Then some make sense. Which confuses the fuck all outta me. So, I know the man is unquestionably intelligent.

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