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Topics - Wilshire

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General Earwa / Narrative shifts in perspective
« on: October 27, 2017, 02:08:22 pm »
Nearly the entire novel is told in third person, but there are a small number of standouts that go against this for some unknown reason.

Present Tense
Mimara: Present tense - From her very first POV and throughout, she is notably the only major POV we get that is written like this.

Yatwer - She appears, very briefly, as an avatar in WLW, and she few lines are written the same way as Mimara.

Second Person
Moenghus The Younger: Second person present tense - His last scene in TUC is written in this bizarre style. "You see him walk down the mountain", etc. My own distaste aside, this is one of only two places this happens.

Koringhus: Same as above - I belive when he submits to Mimara he goes into this narrative style as well. Very strange.

Kellhus - same as above - when he's in the outside

We've been over it before elsewhere, but the conclusion then was that the WLW sections are written in third person past tense, not first person.

Has anyone else noticed this happening to other characters?
The real question though, is what does it mean.

General Earwa / Eschaton – The Beginning, Middle, and End of Time
« on: October 26, 2017, 05:21:10 pm »
I'm going to attempt to explain why the gods think they can see all of time, but are in fact just as deluded as everything else.

Think of eternity.
Imagine that you could represent all of time as the surface of a sphere of infinite size. The eternity-sphere.
Now, imagine the gods have a time-sphere of a certain size. They can hold that sphere in their hand, spin it around, and every point on that surface is a point in time. To them, all of time is the surface of this sphere, and its a static thing, meaning that it isn't growing in their hand. Since the sphere they see isn't growing, they assume they can see all of time - eternity - all at once.
The trouble is, in reality, the real 'real-time sphere' is an expanding thing, and the gods don't see it. So at Eschaton (or whatever time they can see up too), the surface of the real-time sphere, and the surface of the gods time-sphere are the same size. After that, the real-time sphere actually becomes larger - and continues to get larger - than the one that the gods are looking at. At that point, reality, real-time, exists outside of what the gods can see. What they see is really just a static snapshot of time.

It may be helpful, now, to instead think of the gods perception as a sphere that is juuuust slightly larger than the time sphere they are looking at - but they can only see what inside. (Like if you covered a ball in paint, they would be the paint on the surface. Slightly large in surface area, but not much).
Humans, temporal beings that exist only in the present, can only see the the exact time coordinate that they are on. Coordinate x,y,z is the present, and we can't see beyond that. The gods however can see every x,y,z coordinate inside their sphere, and they assume that this is 'all of time'.
But in reality, the real-time sphere that encompasses all of real-time is a growing thing. It expands forever and becomes this eternity-sphere of infinite size. Nothing is outside of it. Once the world shuts - once the real-time sphere becomes larger than the gods - they will no longer be outside of time, but just another mote within the ever expanding timeline of infinity.

Interesting thought - the gods might not notice that reality continues on after them. Before Eschaton, they exist outside real-time, and can see everything that ever happens within. But, since they can only see inside, once real-time encompasses them, they won't be able to tell. I see a couple options here.
They will continue to exist inside the expanding bubble of time, forever thinking themselves masters of reality.
They cease to exist all together
They get stuck on the surface of real-time with the rest of us, existing as we do as temporal being (maybe with a memory that's slightly better than us, but no longer able to see the future as we do).

Philosophy & Science / TED: The Golden Circle
« on: August 08, 2017, 02:32:47 pm »

Interesting take away from this: The parts of the brain that are responsible for decision making are not the same as the part of the brain that processes language.

Also, the law of diffusion of innovation.

The Unholy Consult / TUC - Moments that cut to the visceral quick
« on: July 27, 2017, 11:18:23 am »
AKA, favorite scenes/moments

TUC is filled with so many moments, standing on the shoulders of 6 books worth of history and revelations, for many of us over a decade of real time waiting. Moments that may appear to the laymen as just another line, but to you, they don't so much astound as cut to the core - the visceral quick.

What really hit you right in the feels?

Way at the start, there's a simple line that gave me chills:
Esmenet says this to Kelmomas. A moment, her world crashing around her, where she realizes the last safe harbor in her life has been an illusion. So much is packed into those three italicized letters that, frankly, where they layed out with more verbiage might have lost their impact. The reader is forced to feel what Esmi feels, think what she must think, to unpack the word.
So easy to miss moments like this if you read it too fast ;) .

Anyone else?

News/Announcements / Building Better Community
« on: July 26, 2017, 04:05:38 pm »
To maximize engagement and minimize the inevitable friction between individuals, I've created this thread to establish a place where we might discuss, at length, the interactions between us.

Your posts might be moved here, or quoted in part or in full, in order for us to further understand what broke down in our social discourse, and how we might fix it - or at least not make the same mistake next time. All this, without disrupting the normal flow of conversation in a topic.

Please, feel free to post here if you disagree with how things are being moderated, or if you'd like to otherwise talk about any specific instances related to this community at large that isn't being addressed.

The Unholy Consult / TUC - of heaven and hell
« on: July 25, 2017, 09:47:26 pm »
First thing I noticed in TUC, was the What Came Before section. Curiously, "the Outside" seems to have been replaced with the words Heaven and Hell.

I don't have the means to run the query wholesale, but I thought throughout the series so far we only ever get Outside, rather than heaven/hell, or at least seldom.

Literature / Matchy, non matchy (brent weeks)
« on: July 05, 2017, 07:12:40 pm »

You know how irritating it is when the publisher drops the ball and doesnt make a matching set of covers?

aka Look, over there, an author who cares about his fanbase ;)

Short Stories & Others / The Lollipop Factory
« on: April 26, 2017, 11:47:36 pm »
The work in progress title for a scifi short story that Bakker has finished but has not yet got around to publishing.

The Thousandfold Thought / MOVED: Prince(s) of Nothing
« on: April 21, 2017, 01:12:35 pm »
This topic has been moved to General Earwa due to spoiler content beyond the scope of this subforum.

General Misc. / Starcraft
« on: March 03, 2017, 01:42:53 pm »
Anyone of you play Starcraft?

Madness and I play a few rounds from time to time (most recently the games were 1+ year apart...), and we aren't any good, but its still fun.

Philosophy & Science / AI: Machine Learning looks like brain scans
« on: February 22, 2017, 01:32:07 pm »
Stole this link from themerchant (see below for quorum clip). Same as him, I only vaguley understand the article, but I think its awesome. check it out.

themerchant [22|Feb 06:55 am]:   I have a friend who works at the Allen institute of artificial intelligence she posted this.
themerchant [22|Feb 06:56 am]:   I only vaguely understand what it is saying, but pretty cool, that AI images look like brain images.

Literature / Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus
« on: February 03, 2017, 04:15:47 pm »
Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus
Douglas Rushkoff

Not finished yet, but so far a really interesting discussion on modern economics and where the middle class is going. Buzz words like 'like economy', 'share-economy', etc., as well as some great observations regarding power law distributions in almost every 'free' service (music, books, art, blogs, etc).

Not all the way through, and its a bit doom-and-gloom so far, but I think it'll turn for the better shortly. I definetly don't agree with all his conclusions but its full of great information, observations, and citations.

General Earwa / The Prince of Nothing: TV series
« on: August 26, 2016, 12:43:28 pm »
Not a film but:

TV rights, apparently.

As requested, a fresh topic for the possibility of this: according to Bakker on his blog (link above):

And with details forthcoming, it looks like we have a deal for the television rights to The Prince of Nothing… there’s not much I can say yet, except that the more books I can sell, the greater the chance of seeing the series on the screen! Time to pull out the purple tuxedo…

The Great Ordeal / !TGO SPOILER POLICY!
« on: July 06, 2016, 08:03:05 pm »
There are copies of this book being officially purchased now.

This topic is for the discussion of our spoiler policy. All that follows is up for debate (assuming it's not just Wilshire and I hashing it out, in which case, I yield to Madshire).

Because of the haphazard fashion in which these books are finding their way into the hands of fans, I'll ask that all TGO discussion happen exclusively in The Great Ordeal subforum. The one exception to this will be the Author Q&A, as I'm sure fans will have questions for Bakker and Bakker will want to interact with the fans following a general release.

I'll ask that any thread made discussing TGO, even in The Great Ordeal subforum, include "[TGO SPOILERS]" at the start of your thread subject and that thread subjects don't include obvious spoilers themselves (to the best of your abilities).

Following the UK general release in a couple months time, General Earwa will also host TGO discussion threads, we can drop the "[TGO SPOILERS]" tag, and hopefully bring back Quorum.

Cheers all. Input on these thoughts is encourage as we'd like to be inclusive as possible to old and new fans alike.

Reasoning: Most people check "All Unread" or "New Replies" rather than subforums, for new posts. This should afford some protection for those who want to avoid spoilers. It will also help those commenting on posts to avoid inadvertently posting spoilers where they do not belong.

Basically, open spoilers in The Great Ordeal subforum, no spoilers anywhere else.

Author Q&A / "What Has Come Before..."
« on: June 29, 2016, 07:28:12 pm »
"Who" is the writer of these sections? Should they be viewed, like the glossary or maps, with the same 'flawed historical narrator POV'?

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