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Messages - robizeratul

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Thanks a lot man! very insightful post!
I am rereading the series and I was curious about some "hidden" background stuff. I used the search function but there are so many posts I can't find them...I Remember the mandate thinking they are Seswatha and solving certain pacing issues, I didn't know about the not eating sranc plan.
Very interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!

Yes. I mean does anybody know what stuff was added/removed/changed from the great ordeal and the consult?
I remember reading a very interesting thread a while ago. Where someone has read the original manuscript and made a comparison with the finished books. However I can't find it anymore. That made my curious

The books have weird pacing, so I am curious how Bakker invisioned it. Anyone know how it should have been>

IT's all over the place...
From what I can tell, time itself, the outside, everything is linked. Time changes the outside but the gods can't conceive of this. They can't be aware of it. If that's true, then the No-God is like a "random machine". Literally the only thing in a deterministic universe(deterministic both ways, if that makes any sense) that doesn't have a before and after. Both what comes before, and what comes after doesn't determine it. 
I imagine our own universe, and the existence of other universes out there. We could do our own thing for billions of years without breaking the principle, but when something from the other universe gets it, it breaks causality, time itself.
I think that could be a cool idea. The only problem is the " he was always the No-God" line, so Kelmomas doesn't exist outside of time, it doesn't make sense for him to be destined to do anything. If everything he ever did was dumb luck than maybe it would make sense. However that would make Kellhus wrong.

Some good discussion going on here! Damn this stuff is complicated...It's hard even to find the right words!
I think it's simple a question of ambition. It's the case that 2 things can be true at the same time. The shortest path is both true the No-God and Kellhus. The difference is power.
The dunsult want to close of the world, that's the only logical thing FOR THEM, for the dunyain. For Kellhus however it's different. He even admits he is stronger than the gods ( because he exists in one moment not in many). He has magic and other information the others lack.
I think Kellhus' only fault is wanting to have the cake and eat it too. Like I said in the first post, he makes exception to the shortest path because of "self".
Of course, MSJ, it's true. We on the forum can discuss the fact that things could have gone a different way, however if the No-God is inevitable it means that choice doesn't really exists in Earwa, it means that every struggle and decision leading to this point was just an illusion. The secret lies in Ajokli I think. Maybe his presence/influence will explain the contradiction. 
Can gods deceive each other? how could the the WLW fail? Can the godhead deceive itself? Who knows...

The Dunyain where right. Even if the world works differently than they thought, it doesn't matter.
Even if they can't reach the absolute (or if the absolute is very far away) they are the only ones on the right path . Imagine if Kellhus where 2x, 5x or 10x "closer" to the ideal, surely he would have succeeded.
The series is an argument between intellect and irrationality (feelings) with the scales going from one to the other. For 2000 years the Dunyain where pursuing Intellect, so our main character ( Kellhus ) starts out at that end. The moment he leaves Ishual he is broken. I think few people understand how significant this is for his kind. Moengus didn't suffer this fate. After that he follows the shortest in some ways, but in others he is deceiving himself.. He loves Serwe, Esmenet,Cnaiur, Akkamian and even Proyas, the worst sin however is that he loves himself.
Every mistake Kellhus makes is because of love...Moe is his last test. Instead of talking to him (someone more experienced both with the world and the Logos) and figuring out the shortest path, he gives some bullshit justification and he commits the murder. He is afraid that the shortest path might require his own death, he is afraid of a truth that inconveniences him. He chooses self deception.
Now there is nobody who sees as "deep" as him, nobody who can see his darkness. This way Kellhus becomes just as anyone else in this world. Talking and debating with your equals and betters is the foundation of rationality, of the Logos. The Dunyain accomplished their great feats with fanatical cooperation, every generation "building" the next. Now the only person he can talk to is himself. 
What comes before determines what comes after. Because of these mistakes and a few others, he goes back after Esmenet. Even then, he still has a choice. Letting Kelmomas live  was the culmination of his irrationality, a process that started more than 20 years before.
Kellhus was the harbinger and everything that happened was his fault. A "stronger" Dunyain would have made the same choices but without the mistakes. He had plenty of opportunities but again and again he didn't stay true to the Logos...
The world will burn because Kellhus didn't follow the shortest path, the world will burn because Kellhus loved.

General Earwa / (spoilers all) General Questions
« on: August 10, 2017, 08:10:39 pm »
1)What's up with the Bashrag ?Unlike the Sranc, they are not lust/food obsessed. How are they controlled? Not a lot was revealed about them...
2)Why did only Quya mages join the battle and what happened to them after? What where the Tall and Ishroi doing?
3)Where did the big dragon go from Sauglish? I thought he ran to Golgoterath.

I think Cnaiur, If we are not counting non-men...
Did he actually die though? I don't know. I thought (and was hoping) that he would look into the inverse fire...Curious what he would have seen.

General Earwa / [Everything Spoilers] Are these plot holes?
« on: August 10, 2017, 11:04:51 am »
After thinking about it, these are the only(possible) plot holes I can think of.
1)Why didn't Moengus realize Kellhus will be a sorceror ? Even without Akka, he shortest path dictates that he convince a scarlet schoolman. He admitted to being weak, he had no chance in winning against Kellhus wielding the Daimos or other sorceries.
2)Why didn't Moe learn other sorcery? He had the time. Capturing a schoolman would have been easy, even Akka went to Shimeh years before. From what I understand the schools guard their secrets, that's why there are distinctive schools...but this is no problem for him. Can't a Cisharum learn other sorcery?
3)Did Kellhus know of Cnaiur? it would have been obvious for him to know.
4)If Cnaiur is a reincarnation of a god(or something like it) How can he "see" the No-God ?
This for now. will post more if it comes to mind...

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Unholy Consult Giveaway
« on: June 01, 2017, 06:11:54 pm »
Who won ? Who is blessed by the gods ?

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Unholy Consult Giveaway
« on: May 25, 2017, 11:24:13 pm »
The only prediction I can give is that whatever Bakker does, I will be blown away by this book. I didn't read any theories,didn't even want to speculate...whatever happens the last book will be "raw" for me.
I never won anything except a bag of chips, so If I get lucky I can predict I will be more excited than a Sranc seeing the No-God!
Damn,can't wait!!

General Earwa / Re: Unification wars details.
« on: January 16, 2017, 08:20:38 pm »
Could someone copy that section ? Dont have it digitally

General Earwa / Unification wars details.
« on: December 23, 2016, 09:04:14 pm »
What do we know of the unification wars? Can we do like detectives and reconstruct a timeline of events, the dates,names etc.
I am searching now for some facts, curios if anyone cares about this ( or if this has been discussed )

General Earwa / Is there any interest for audiobooks?
« on: August 24, 2016, 09:05:15 pm »
The first 3 books of the Second Apocalypse series where narrated by a guy named David de Vries. Honestly it was such an amazing narration...without it I doubt I would have enjoyed the series as much.
For whatever reason, Audilbe decided to change narrators for the second series...This was quite depressing honestly, the new guy isn't as good.
I am curious, are people here fans of the audiobooks ? Maybe we could do something, like a fundraiser/kickstarter to convince Audible to bring him again. This has happened a few times in the past when a narrator change came with backlash from fans. I don't have the numbers, however seeing as you have less than 100 hours, at 100$ a hour it would mean 10 000 $. That not astronomical when it comes to kickstarters. ALso ( the number may be more or less) the point stands that a show of support might be enough, we don't need the whole number to convince Audible. 
These are just ideas though...I for one would shell out a few dollars for this. Any thoughts?

Good answers! 
I think however it devalues the skills of the Dunayn. I liked the "reading faces" part, it seems human. It's something people can actually do, some are much better at it than others of course. Seeing every micro expression and trying to piece together what up is interesting. 
"seeing souls" seems lame in comparison. 2000 years of Dunayn history and effort wasted. The whole room with the faces ( a really cool scene! ) is for nothing.

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