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Messages - jurble

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The thing we're all missing
« on: August 23, 2017, 11:19:38 pm »
I'm on board with Ark still having some degree of capacity, but I think another factor could be the Inverse Fire.  It appears to have the ability to sooth Erratics and bring them back to some semblance of sanity and lucidity, at least temporarily.  Mek essentially says as much in his scene with Kellhus.  So perhaps the Consult simply exposes their Erratics to the Inverse Fire when they need some extra brainpower or flunkies who can function at a higher level than Sranc or Skinspies.

Inverse-Fire->calmed Erratics is one of the ideas that crossed my mind in the previous threads.  But I'm not too certain about it, because like Curethan said, it's something that should 'obvious', but the only evidence we have for it is Mek's reaction to the Fire.   I myself have no idea what Bakker might consider to be the (supposedly) obvious answer.  The author's PoV isn't the same as the readers.

General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Nascenti of Zaudunyanicon
« on: August 15, 2017, 06:41:12 pm »
He's not wrong that the Gods have the same qualities as Ciphrang, they're just bigger.  But the fundamental part of the Fanim worldview is that God exists apart from Creation and that the Outside isn't the 'real' afterlife, but is Hell and the real afterlife is something believers in Fanimry can attain by escaping the Outside and its demons.   So in practicality the Fanim are trying to achieve Oblivion like the Nonmen, but for completely wrong reasons and under incorrect assumptions (that there exists an afterlife beyond the Outside).

Yeah, it's not impossible God is both immanent and transcendent, especially when you toss in a bit of omnipotence.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« on: August 06, 2017, 08:05:27 pm »
I don't think just being really evil is all it takes to be a ciphrang. We only see two, maybe three confirmed cases. And even then, being a Ciphrang isn't necessarily very fun. Gin'yursis seemed to be suffering quite profoundly even as the master of his own mini-hell.

Right, Gin'yursis, confirmed as Ciphrang, still talked about himself being damned.  So "better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven" doesn't really apply to Ciphrang.  Sure, you aren't getting eaten, but it doesn't seem pleasant.

He was already coy about the Shauriyain...Dunriatis...Shaeonanyain...Dunonanra.. theory in the Q&A.   But I'm not sure it's the same as the thing we missed about the Consult.  It might be? But it doesn't explain the Consult's lack of thinking/sane manpower over the years which the missing revelation should apparently address.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas
« on: August 02, 2017, 07:13:03 pm »
Nothing, they just died of old age presumably.  Kalbear makes an interesting observation that the meeting the Golden Room is really just the same set-up as in the False Sun.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?
« on: August 01, 2017, 05:30:07 pm »
No.. it was the Gate that exploded... the Black Iron Seat is built from the slag of the Gate.

Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: August 01, 2017, 04:35:19 pm »
9. Was Aurang using Aporetic wards when Kellhus took him down?

This was something I was wondering as well (he says he practices other Arcana in TWP and Saccarees spells dissipate against his wards), but I was planning on saving it for the AMA tomorrow to help bolster the comment count :O.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?
« on: August 01, 2017, 02:43:37 pm »
The actual Heron Spear likely rests in Horiotha's barrow, I think.  Though, both Kellhus and the Mutilated likely made that guess and one or the other probably ransacked the barrows years ago at this point.

Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: August 01, 2017, 04:01:48 am »
Nah, see the Gods see the world fixed in time and the world is fixed in time.  It's just that the Gods are blind dumbos.  The world is like.. a series of books (to extend a metaphor Kalbear used on Westeros) everything is written.  But the Gods have Volume 1 and the No-God stole Volume 2 (and onwards) from the shelf - and the Gods, lacking Reason, don't realize what's going on and assume the series ends in Volume 1, even though the rest of the books still exist.  The analogy sorta fails in that.... Volume 1 has invisible text... that only the Living can read.. because the Consult is using invisible ink... that they got in Volume 2.  But THE GOD can also read the invisible ink (but his fractured portions can't.  Ajokli notices the weird gaps in the text, though).

Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: August 01, 2017, 03:34:53 am »
On topic: Why did Kellhus say to Proyas that the Inchoroi must win? Was he arguing from the perspective of the Consult?

This is straightforward in the text.  Earwa is a world where everything has already happened, forward and backward in time.  So the fact that the Gods can't see the Ark or the Consult implies that they succeed at some point in the future.  It's the same reason why the Gods can't see Kelmomas.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:14:19 pm »
Well, even if the Mutilated aren't Shae, the fact that the Dunyain survived and joined the Consult shouldn't be considered a contrivance.  It was a fairly common theory until TGO, in fact.  Even when Akka and Mimara came to the destroyed Ishual, the idea that the Dunyain were enslaved and taken to the Ark was a common hypothesis put forward.  This theory died down when we met the Survivor, since his description didn't indicate the Consult had any goals other than extermination.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas
« on: July 31, 2017, 10:56:15 pm »
What honestly changes though? So shae beat out the dunyain who are now shae... okay so? Feels like we're back to where we started.

Wasn't your complaint that the Dunyain are OP and you're sick of them?  The point is that the Dunyain lost.  They're dead, gone-zo.  The Five then Four Mutilated aren't Dunyain.  They're Shaeonanra, the most intelligent and evil guy in the history of Earwa, who now possesses the mental faculties of four living supercomputers. 

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Shauriatas
« on: July 31, 2017, 10:27:03 pm »
The only reason I even considered it is because Bakker says everyone apparently missed something about the Consult, especially given how we're all mocking how stupid and decrepit the original members are.  So after pondering it for a few hours, my conclusion is that Shae wasn't stupid or decrepit.   That's the subversion of expectations.  The readers, all of us, saw Aurang, Aurax and Mek and assumed Shae was one of them - dumb and basically useless.  We saw the Dunyain and we assumed they were as capable as Kellhus - as did Kellhus himself. 

lie, and the Truth spoke with but one soul.

Bakker, R. Scott. The Unholy Consult: Book Four of the Aspect-Emperor series (Aspect Emperor 4) (Kindle Location 7184). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.

This is a pun...

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