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Messages - Monkhound

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1
The Unholy Consult / Re: Kellhus, Kelmomas and the Narindar
« on: November 04, 2017, 07:47:47 pm »
A slightly different angle I got thinking about last week: In the first three books of TAE we get the perception explained that, from all of the active POV, the gods are hunting Kellhus. Esmenet even grows to perceive that the gods are hunting her whole family, trying to get to Kellhus. Yet barely any of the attention of the agents of the gods is actually directly targeted at him. In text, we actually only see Sorweel directly target Kellhus. The gross of the attention is focused on Momemn (invasion, earthquake, assassins).

What we do get though, is the description in TWL that both Inrilatas and Maithanet see what Kelmomas is.
At the same time, we now know that Kellhus is now salted, and no longer visible for Ajokli and (by extension) the other gods. The gods, seeing all time at the same time, therefore have always seen Kellhus, and therefore have maybe not been targeting him all along. Notice that if they had, they could (and probably would) have before, for example during the First Holy War, or during most of the Unification Wars.

At the same time, we get no mentions of the gods acting against Kellhus and his progeny until the flashback in Shigek at the beginning of TJE. I don't have the book with me right now, so I can't check the date of the chapter, but I'm going to assume this corresponds to the birth of Kelmomas and Samarmas, or  possibly the moment Kel and Sami get separated.

The idea I got was that the gods know that something is wrong without knowing exactly what, but that the disturbance is located in Momemn. That's the reason why Yatwer and Momas target Momemn (and not whereverthe Ordeal is at the time), first accidentally hitting Thelliopa, and nearly killing both Kellhus and Kelmomas.

Any thoughts?

2
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why Kelmomas?
« on: September 13, 2017, 02:59:12 pm »
Plausible.  However, he is "in there" somewhere?  I guess we can ask, as NG 1.0, who is asking "WHAT DO YOU SEE?"  Is it the apparatus itself?  I think probably would be Nau-Cayuti.

Just as circuitry in, say, a car has no idea what it is doing, I doubt if the soul that completes the Sarcophagus' function is aware of what it is doing.  Obviously, electrical circuits are always unaware, but a soul, shorn of the body and so of it's identity and perceptual capacity, ends up in nearly the same place.  The difference, of course, as the NG 1.0 demonstrates, is that the insertant retains (or gains, depending on how you want to approach it) the awareness of being unaware.  Not only that, but seemingly also retains the feeling, or perhaps knowledge, that something isn't quite right about this state.

In how far does this relate to the situation of both the Wathi doll (TWP) and Malowebi, I wonder? The situation is not exactly the same, of course, but there is the similarity that in all three cases the soul has been wrenched from the body and jammed into something else to fulfil a new purpose (to be turned into a tool).
Malowebi we get a clear view of what he can see and sense, but his purpose is still unclear.
In addition, the "making of a Wathi doll" process was explained in TGO, as far as I recall.
Any ideas?

3
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorűl
« on: September 11, 2017, 06:01:57 am »
Wow... lol... xD

4
The Crabikiad / Re: What's the story!?
« on: September 09, 2017, 05:36:54 pm »
I'm not sure, but I also sense a parallel coming relating to Oinaral Lastborn. Not sure if it's The Boy who's going to get that story, or Akka's and Mim's son.

5
The Unholy Consult / Re: (TUC spoilers) Esme, what makes her so important
« on: September 06, 2017, 04:10:43 pm »
The original Prophet that brought Man into Earwa had a wife named Esmenet.

And not to forget Akka's mentioning it being such an odd name for a whore somewhere in PoN... or something the like.

6
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorűl
« on: September 04, 2017, 04:05:59 pm »
For similar Creation analogies you also have the Greek mythology (first the Creation, then later Prometheus stealing the Fire), God creating humanity according to Genesis or other cabalistic traditions, the Sumerian tradition, and most certainly a myriad of other versions. Most rely on being created from clay and recieving a divine impulse through either a pičce of the divine (either physical piece, or a breath).
 And let's also not forget Aulë creating the dwarves in the Silmarillion (I believe: created from stone, under the largest mountains?).

Why the use of the word "hair"? Possibly just because we read Sorweel's interpretation of the text?

7
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Esmenet the Angelic Ciphrang
« on: September 01, 2017, 03:20:25 pm »
There is a part when he stands against the Nansur where he looks like he is aspected by Gilgaol, iirc. Possession is really stretching it imo.

Wasn't there also a scene where Saubon had the same with Gilgaöl in TWP? Thought it was even at or after Mengedda.

8
The Unholy Consult / Re: We Are Proyas
« on: August 29, 2017, 06:07:30 am »
Exactly. Just as he probably foresaw some people breathing a sigh of relief in the face of a Consult victory, he foresaw others making angry forum posts about it.
More about the abruptness of the ending and lack of clarity about who's right and who's wrong, I think.

As had been discussed earlier both on TSA and confirmed by Bakker, there is no-one right or wrong, which is part of the beauty of the whole: There are only gray areas, just as these exist in our everyday perception, just add there always exists a different perception of real life events, no matter how big or puny these are. That goes both for the characters and for our interpretation. We're left to decide for ourselves about the good and the bad, or preferably who we deem "most moral", if we need to.

9
The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: August 28, 2017, 11:18:40 am »
Cannibal Sodomy Holocaust

Just saying: I'm loving this denomination. It could be a black metal band  ;D

10
The Unholy Consult / Re: The thing we're all missing
« on: August 23, 2017, 10:07:01 am »
Something I missed in the first read-through: In the first chapter, Serwa recalls Seswatha wearing the Amiolas three times. She calls Immiricas' soul "the Goad" to remind the one wearing it of Hate. It therefore seems to fulfil the same function as the Inverse Fire, while at the same time referencing Ajokli.
No exact idea what this means though.

11
The Unholy Consult / Re: The thing we're all missing
« on: August 20, 2017, 05:49:58 pm »
I'm surprised people think RSB is referring to an actual boat. Surely it's just a figure of speech.

It wouldn't be the first time in history that a literal interpretation gives an actual hint ;)

12
The Unholy Consult / Re: The thing we're all missing
« on: August 20, 2017, 03:39:56 pm »
I don't have my TGO copy with me just now, but maybe there's something on Kellhus's monologue/ speech on the ship built by the just before Dagliash that we've missed? Anyway, I'll have a look when I'm home.

13
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Mysunsai and the Red Ghoul
« on: August 18, 2017, 08:51:02 pm »

Though part of me thinks Sujara-nin attacked him because he had the symbol of the Mikka on his robes. While Sujara's actions as a sorcerous mercenary inspired the Mysunsai, the Mikka themselves were formed as a result of his "predations", making me think they were in opposition to him.

He sees the Compass, remembers fighting them and flips, killing Guswuran.

I got the part where he was surprised that three Halaroi were suddenly far within his wards due to him having lost himself in his rage.
He then instantly recognizes the Compass as a threat, but I missed why he went nuts because of it.
It was clearly because of an association he could still make in his unraveling mind, but I didn't quite figure out why.
The whole passage was rather confusing.
I'd either go for the "He remembered fighting them" (but I find this less likely), or for the "Kill/ Sacrifice the ones you love to remember once more" that we got during the Akka-Nil'Giccas and Oirunas-Oinaral fights.

14
The Unholy Consult / Re: Zaudunyanicon 2017 Poster/Patch Giveaway!
« on: August 18, 2017, 06:47:37 am »
Akka discovers Seswatha was a weapon constructed by the Consult after the First Apocalypse all along.

15
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 16, 2017, 02:50:23 pm »
My only problem with that interpretation is that Harapior warned her not to try and cant with the Collar on after she'd proved torture didn't work on her, after all the singing and the other Nonmen saying that she tormented him. He still seemed to think the Collar would kill her if she used sorcery, even though he absolutely knew that pain had no hold over her. To me, that implies that merely being able to ignore pain shouldn't normally protect against an Agonic Collar, and that Serwa had to do something else (that Harapior could not conceive of) to defeat it.

It's a shame her showing her father's dread portion happens off screen.

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