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Messages - TLEILAXU

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however I do think it's interesting to consider the notion of Ciphrang being summoned even before the soul who went on to become that Ciphrang -- though I also think the greater Ciphrang are amalgamations of souls -- and that, for example, Zioz could have in fact been Achamian-as-Ciphrang (or someone else) and for this reason it did not kill him at the end TTT so much as kinda bring him away to safety in a weird way?
I hate this idea!!! But I'm still confused as to why the Ciphrang did not kill Akka.

It's curious also that in all our Ciphrang POV's, they're never characterized as having any kind of atemporal viewpoint, in fact quite the opposite -- at least one of them from TTT literally recalls the "millions of years" (not exact but a big number) that it has been in the Outside.

Weird stuff as usual.
Forgot all about that. Mind finding the passage for me coz' I'm lazy? Sounds really interesting.

Kellhus hanging from his own salted waist... I don't know, we're desperately lacking in new information.

I didn't present it as if it was a good idea, just something that would probably be possible.
Eh I don't think it's that bad, just wack, and also kinda plausible.


Also, what would a daimos+psukhe sorcerer be like? Maybe you can summon stronger demons without getting shrecked? Maybe Iyokus had a little bit of Psukhe in him due to the loss of his eyes, lending him the ability to command stronger demons than other sorcerers? Oh but the chanv...

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First, yeah, as you point out 'two random ciphrangs' seems unlikely lol.
although it probably would be something that makes them unquestionably loyal (or bound) to Kellhus' will.
Like how he conquered Ajokli ;)

There is also a possibility that one of them is Kellhus himself...
Kellhus hanging from his own salted waist... I don't know, we're desperately lacking in new information.

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A couple of ideas on why this might have been:

1. He knows too much.  As things turned out, Kellhus' experiments with the Daimos ended up being pretty important to the story.  So providing his perspective might have been too much a tip of the hat. 

2. Optics.  Of all Kellhus' atrocities, none were more concerning to his flock than his experiments with the Daimos.  The Decapitants in particular were hard to square with his role as Prophet.   So it might have made sense to keep Iyokus at arms' length.

Yeah I think your second point can work for sure, at least to explain his lack of presence during the strategy and councils and so forth (interesting, for example, how Iyokus doesn't even show up for moments like when the Believer-Kings gather or the Last Whelming -- I can't think of any reason off-hand other than what you suggest that would make sense for that).
I didn't notice that but it's a good point. Iyokus is intelligent and likely wouldn't have fallen for Kellhus' prophetic charms the same way others might have, and also he would've probably known more about his impending damnation than every other sorcerer except Kellhus himself.

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General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« on: October 01, 2018, 11:49:07 pm »
Watched Mandy. Pretty good, not amazing. Very nice coloring throughout the movie. Nice aesthetics all around. Good performances by the various actors.

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General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« on: September 25, 2018, 09:55:23 pm »
Yeah, The Shaper of Water is better than it looks. Still not my cup o' tea though. I watched Hereditary recently. First hour is top notch horror, after that it starts to drop the ball a bit. Worth a watch. I'll probably be watching The Predator or Mandy next. Will be watching the new Halloween in october as well.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: "Kellhus is dead, but not done."
« on: September 17, 2018, 07:47:32 pm »
I think it's reasonable to take the statement about passing no further at face value, especially regarding later quotes such as "you seek to starve the Gods" etc.
However, as Smiler also mentioned, the dreams add uncertainty about all this, especially given the possible ambiguity regarding whether it's actually GilgaŲl we see or Ajokli. I actually asked Bakker about this in the AMA and this was his answer
Quote
The Trickster is as eternal as any of the other Gods.

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General Earwa / Re: Are we still on Moenghus Sr TTT?
« on: September 10, 2018, 06:42:28 pm »
No, I think it is more likely that Moe died because he misapprehended the nature of the Outside and how influential it could be.
I think MoŽnghus' main mistake is not realizing that occasionally, the God does wake up..

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"Men cannot see this because of their native incapaci≠ties. They attend only to what confirms their fears and their desires, and what contradicts they either dismiss or overlook. They are bent upon affirmation. The priests crow over this or that incident, while they pass over all others in silence. I have watched, my son, for years I have counted, and the world shows no favour. It is perfectly indifferent to the tantrums of men.

"The God sleeps... It has ever been thus. Only by striv≠ing for the Absolute may we awaken Him. Meaning. Purpose. These words name not something given... no, they name our task."

8
Quote
TLEILAXU: DNA is relatively inert, it contains only instructions for the machines that read it to make more machines.

Ehh, I can quibble but you are mostly right. Fine, RNA then! :D For those who are not familiar with this topic, this has to do with a debate on the origin of life. Specifically, the question is which came first, the code (nucleic acid) or the machinery (protein)? As things stand now, the code (DNA) is, as TLEILAXU says, mostly inert; it contains the information on how, when, and in what quantity to build the machinery of life (proteins); the machines (proteins) do the works of life, including making more DNA, but contain no transmittable information. Right now they work in a perfect partnership. Most people, however, believe that it's improbable that both should arise simultaneously. One proposed solution is that in the early days of life, a generalist did both (encode information and act on it), such as RNA, and only later this job was split into two and handed to two specialists (DNA and protein).

So when an RNA molecule transmits information to itself and modifies itself, is it not in sense acting both as a subject and an object? Is not the world SEALED AGAINST THE OUTSIDE?!  ;D
It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing right? They could've co-evolved. There's a nice pop-sci article at quanta magazine about this https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-end-of-the-rna-world-is-near-biochemists-argue-20171219/

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 30, 2018, 05:01:01 am »
Perhaps the most important thing to be answered still has to be what really happened to ShaeŲnanra, but beyond that I won't be too bothered if things aren't answered. The Inverse Fire for example, has an in my opinion pretty much straight forward definition in the glossary and on top of the things we learn from the main story and The False Sun, I don't think we really need that much more.
If the books ended with TUC I wouldn't be too sad, since the ending heavily hints at a Consult victory and it goes in hand with the whole crash space stuff, but obviously I'm looking forward to seeing more of The Mutilated and hopefully also some Aurax bits.
My biggest fear is that now that the main story is over that Bakker will three-pound-brain the books up too much. Some of his other books, e.g. Neuropath, suffer from that.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:39:08 pm »
FWIW, the Gods cant see an end, they believe they are eternal.
Or maybe the God intends to destroy creation at some point, hence the "doom outside of doom" line.

Quote from: Wilshire
"The soul that encounters it goes not further", the whole still-born child thing ... I'd say that this can still be true, just that once the NG was blow up, it released the souls.
Yeah this is what I'm going to go with.

Quote
Where did Nau see the IF, was that False Son or Akka dream sequence? I'd be interested to see what he says about it either way.
Akka dream sequence. I vaguely remember the description of fire being reflected off the floor.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [Spoilers] Is the Consult doomed to fail?
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:20:28 pm »
A thought occured to me; Kellhus pretty much states that the hell witnessed through the Inverse Fire is something that's already happened/happening, because hell is outside the time spectrum of the world. He sees himself as something, while the Mutiliated and rest of the Consult (and I think, pretty much anyone who has looked at the Inverse Fire) witness themselves as being damned in hell.

So, my question is - if they're already in hell, then does that mean their eventual goal of shutting off the world is doomed to failure? Perhaps, not entirely, but they themselves will perish before they can escape damnation.
Eternity changes and can be changed, as both incarnations of the White-Luck Warrior found out.
This.

Kellhus explaining to Proyas that The Consult/TNG eventually wins if not that day, complicates further. But good catch, CF.
I'm still puzzled by that statement, and Bakker's answer in the AMA does not make it any more clear.

I forget, but Kellhus explains in the read that they have to end up winning otherwise there weren't be some current thing/condition in present day. Something about the gods maybe.
I think the reason is, the gods can't see beyond the Eschaton/end, the NG *is* that end, the gods actions demonstrate their a blindness to the NG, ergo the NG will rise at some point in the future.
I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, how can the Gods see and end related to something they can't see?

Everyone that sees themselves as Damned is in fact destined to be in hell - its a forgone conclusion. However, those that do not see themselves in the IF are the ones that survive.
Not according to the definition in the glossary for The Inverse Fire:
Quote
Subparticular intentional field machine linking individual observational frames of reference to their eternal fate in the Outside. ...


Quote from: Wilshire
That the world is exterminated, that all men and nonmen, except maybe the 144k, are killed and their souls end up in hell
The souls that die during the No-God don't pass into the Outside IIRC.

Quote from: Wilshire
What would the IF look like to someone who wasn't destined to be in hell? Perhaps its entirely invisible. An empty ring. Nothing.
Nau-Cayuti saw the Inverse Fire, but I can't remember if he gazed into it.

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Second, there's one interesting line (of course there is; this is like scripture and we all enjoy quoting our own prooftext). One of the mutilated said to Kellhus "... A code lies buried in the ebb and flow of life on this World. The more deaths, the brighter this code burns, the more Ark can read..." Code? My mind immediately leapt to DNA. Then a bit later they started talking about "collapsing the subject and object." Hmmm. What about DNA? Is that not both a subject and object simultaneously? Does it not direct and organize life but also engineer its own construction and change?
I think it has more to do with the Outside. Something about the passage of souls. It's a cryptic passage for sure.
Quote
Does it not direct and organize life but also engineer its own construction and change?
DNA is relatively inert, it contains only instructions for the machines that read it to make more machines.

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The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 11:54:12 pm »
Almost feels deliberate. In the first account his mother is strangled to death, in the other it almost sounds like she is beaten to death with rocks etc.

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The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 11:21:48 pm »
Cnauir mother had a baby by Moe. They killed the baby and his mother for bearing a child of Moe's. The baby was not of the People.
What sex was the baby?

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The Almanac: PON Edition / ARC: TWP Chapter 2
« on: August 23, 2018, 10:39:52 pm »
Quote
Images, stark and dry, of the Steppe assailed him. The other women tearing at his mother's hair, clawing at her face, clubbing her with rocks, stabbing her with sticks. Mother. A bawling infant hoisted from her yaksh, tossed into the all-cleansing fire--his blond-haired half-brother. The stone faces of the men turning away from his look . . .

From TDTCB chapter 12:
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Then, two seasons later, the other women strangled his mother for giving birth to a blonde girl. As they raised her corpse on the vulture poles, he began to understand what had actually happened.

Can anybody explain this?

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