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Messages - Jabberwock03

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1
General Earwa / Re: Thought about other supports?
« on: August 14, 2018, 08:33:10 pm »
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

In my mind, it was obvious that Bakker would be at the story part of the new media.

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General Earwa / Re: Thought about other supports?
« on: August 14, 2018, 03:34:35 pm »
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
Why not a comics about a scalper or something?

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General Earwa / Thought about other supports?
« on: August 14, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
Hi guys,

I was wondering, on what other support would you like to see The Second Apocalypse adapted (TV show, comics, video game)?

From what I understood, the TV show will never happen (and I can't really be sad about that, not sure you can adapte something that heavy on TV).

Personnaly I would love to see the books adapted in an Animé format (as a netflix original for example, they do a good job at respecting the original content IMO), with short seasons of 12/13 episodes. For me, this format would allow the best possibilities for the philosophical parts (narative internal thoughts are better done in animés than series), and visual part (landscap, magic, gore, etc).

I would also like a video game of those book, specifically some sort of Total War in Earwa. I want my Ordeal to fight countless srancs!

And you, what do you imagine? Be creative!

P.S. Sorry if the topic already exist, I did search the forum but didn't found anything except for TV show.

4
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: August 14, 2018, 02:09:49 pm »
I disliked it. Bakker killed off all my favourite characters and spared the ones I don't like. And I disliked how dense the prose got towards the end; I'm still not quite sure what happened, I don't think I'll be until he explains it in the next book. I understand it's just become his style, but I'd appreciate a clearer prose.

I agree, though, this series has just begun. I mean, it's called the Second Apocalypse, and that's literally what began in the last book.

That's why it's awesome! It's kinda unexpected from a classic fantasy POV.

Perhaps, but it's hard to follow a story when you're not that much invested in the characters that are left alive.

Not that I'm not following, though...

I can't really relate to this. I hardly ever invest myself in the characters of books. I read books more for the story, I mean the events happening, than for the people doing the things.
I can like or dislike a character, but in either case I like following them as long as it's not boring.

5
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: August 07, 2018, 02:12:20 pm »
I disliked it. Bakker killed off all my favourite characters and spared the ones I don't like. And I disliked how dense the prose got towards the end; I'm still not quite sure what happened, I don't think I'll be until he explains it in the next book. I understand it's just become his style, but I'd appreciate a clearer prose.

I agree, though, this series has just begun. I mean, it's called the Second Apocalypse, and that's literally what began in the last book.

That's why it's awesome! It's kinda unexpected from a classic fantasy POV.

6
The Unholy Consult / Re: Another (perhaps) simple question
« on: July 29, 2018, 06:31:22 pm »
Watts for Scifi and Bakker for Fantasy are my current two favorite authors!
This. They are like, I dunno, columns and rows in the table.

They should team up on a two face novel! Each of them writting the same story from a different POV.
How is this not a thing already?!

7
I would love to have an unique point of view in writing style. Something weird like the No-God (p-zombie) or Ajokli (timeless) POV.
Also I want Malowebi and Kellhus POV (whatever they have become) !

I agree there needs to be more non-human/Dunyain POVs, seems like a wasted oppurtunity not to have interesting POVs of other races like dragons and maybe semi-sane Nonman, perhaps even some Ursranc.

Dragons seem like a no-brainer though. For example they seem to all refer to themselves as "we" (excluding Wutteat). Would be cool to see why that is from a first hand perspective.

Oh damn! I would love to have a scranc POV!
Something very instinctivly driven, and struggling with the NG orders (whatever Bakker feel that could be, I'm good with it: worship or submission or mind control, whatever).
The story of a Sranc for the entire book and in the end... killed by a nobody in a massive battle! Haha!

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The Unholy Consult / Re: Another (perhaps) simple question
« on: June 27, 2018, 08:17:22 pm »
Wait, is that Blindsight? Amazing book.
I just started reading blindsight right now. Fkin amazing.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Watts for Scifi and Bakker for Fantasy are my current two favorite authors!
Hard to read anything from anyone else these days.

9
I would love to have an unique point of view in writing style. Something weird like the No-God (p-zombie) or Ajokli (timeless) POV.
Also I want Malowebi and Kellhus POV (whatever they have become) !

10
The Unholy Consult / Re: Serwa seen with the Judging Eye
« on: June 14, 2018, 06:29:55 pm »
I see the thread derailed a little, but to answer OP :

I think intention is the main cause for her Ciphrang condition.

Because she is Dunyain, she is damned by default. Then she use metagnostic which damn her even more.
So that's already huge for the damnation part.

But, in contrary to her father, she is part Esme/human and have a heart (she does actually love). Where Kellhus is like a robot, and do horrible stuff but with no intentions (it's just the shortest path), she have to mean all the horrible stuffs she does. And that's why she is view as a deamon and not just damned... damned a lot!
Plus I tend to think that the mere possibility of what she's capable of is enough to "Ciphrangize" her even more. Like she knows she is capable of, let's say, killing an entire country to achieve her ends ; and as she has to intend it to happens...

And that would explain why Kosoter or Cnaïur are viewed as Ciphrang too (they will to do bad). But Nil'Giccas is just damned because he kind of is a good guy (non-guy?) but practiced sooooo much sorcery.

tl;dr
Good guy doing bad stuff/sorcery ==> damned
Bad guy doing bad stuff (with or without sorcery) ==> Ciphrang
Special mention to Kellhus: Neither good or bad, just acting zombie following circumstances ==> who knows?

11
It might be that anarcane grounds stop the divine. My theory is, the No-God is an entity of the Outside, an inverse, non-conscious God. This way it just can't operate on anarcane grounds.
I don't understand, intellectually, the discussion surrounding consciousness very well (as a general rule it seems), but also specifically in regards to the No-God.

That said, Bakker has called the No-God a p-zombie (whatever that is), but also said in his podcast with Stuff to Blow Your Mind that the Gods were something like what a physical manifestations of our own subconscious ... or something like that. Neither description does me much good lol, but I thought you might find it helpful?

Like a chat-bot, but much more complex. It can interact, take decision, and you can't say if it's a real person or not, but it doesn't have any self-awareness.
You take inputs, you process it, you send output.

In the other hand, the gods are all self-awarness, so much that they can create their own reality (hell/heaven), if I get it right.

12
Oops, clicked the 'modify' button on a post other than my. Sorry H!

For clarity, this is what I meant to add to the bottom of my last post:
That's pretty much what I said I think:

- Outside exist everywhere
- Everyone is damned
- But the connection is powerful on Earwa so you can do magic and gods can do some stuff
I don't think I, or anyone, is contesting those points.

- And it's weak on Progenitors world so you can just watch your damnation through the IF and gods know you're here but can't do shit to you
I don't get this part though.
Either its so weak the humans/gods cant interact, or its not that weak and there is some interaction. That interaction is what allows the IF.

Seems unlikely that the IF is an exception to the rule: the rule that stops humans/mundane-creatures from access to the Outside without magic. So the proginators built the soggomatic ring and covered it with suspiciously runic circuitry - and Ajokli flipped the magic switch on when they pressed 'go'.



Weak enough so that the only thing that happens is soul related (being born with a soul, being subject to judgement and therefore damnation) and the IF just observe this (as if you would observe a distant star but can't change its orbit). The gods can't do crazy stuffs like Yatwer geting out of the ground all muddy and distributing choraes.
But that's only my interpretation.

13
Yes, it's just assumptions, but it find it most likely.
No, no, I find your logic quite sound, I just wanted to outline some things I consider important, which was made possible by your posts.

I actually have I completely different theory about why the Gods don't, presumably (it is my presumption, too), appear to the Progenitors and quite possibly to Nonmen, also. At least not in the same capacity as they appear to Men in. I think the Gods of TSA are exclusively the Gods of Men, and so have no love for anyone else.

That's why I'm a tremendous fan of everything that happened in Ishterebinth, it offers so much insight into Nonmen religion or what passes for it.

Never thought of that, I just imagined that the nonmen said fuck off when they discovered their are gods (and as I said that the Progenitors just couldn't even know they exist) while the humans start to worship them because... well... because they are gods.

14
What I meant is that the string connecting the outside and the reality is so weak that you can observe it, but can't do much.
No magic/gods involvement for anarcane weak connection, but still a way to watch your damnation through the IF/be watched by the gods.
I do not feel we can make this leap of logic with the information available. The connection exists and can be accessed. It is accessed by the Inverse Fire. Presuming that there is no potential way to use that connection for something else, like influencing the Outside in some way, is much more than I'm comfortable doing.

Granted, it might have been the case for the Progenitors, in the sense that all they could achieve was looking into the Outside. But in my eyes it's a technological limitation that says nothing about the actual scope of possibilities.

Well, we know that you can't do magic on Anarcane ground and that the world of the Progenitors is anarcane. And we know that the Progenitors weren't aware of anything metaphysical before the IF.
The gods flavor their souls-snacks with worshiping, so I think if they could have made the Progenitors worship them by showing up as they do in Earwa, they would have.

So I think it's safe to say that the interaction between the outside and the reality on the Progenitors world is not that great. And it would make sens that the Progenitors would have thought about all possible way of doing something about the outside from home, before sending a big ship with living weapon to rampage planets hoping to close the outside.

Yes, it's just assumptions, but it find it most likely.

15
Or did I understood you wrong?
My issue is with the "read-only" part of your views. What I mean by a connection is a possibility of interaction that goes invariably both ways.

For it to be different, something needs to not be a part of the system of reality and at the same time influence that system, which is a paradox.

What I meant is that the string connecting the outside and the reality is so weak that you can observe it, but can't do much.
No magic/gods involvement for anarcane weak connection, but still a way to watch your damnation through the IF/be watched by the gods.

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