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Messages - Madness

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4816
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: October 20, 2013, 03:24:09 pm »
I see a little clearer now.

We seem to have settled on assumptions of gender in our assertions.

The question then becomes one of whether the Nonman females were Ishroi (or Quya, Siqu, Judge) or if they were somehow or another barred or constrained from equal positions in Nonman Society?

Women aren't Ishroi (Sparta) or Women are Ishroi (Plato's Guardians).

4817
Philosophy & Science / Re: Rupert Sheldrake
« on: October 20, 2013, 03:20:33 pm »
On the other hand, we should all strive to converse on the internet as if we were talking personally (i.e. face to face). 

I do, though I think kinetic communication accounts for much as well - many aspects of communication are lacking in this thought space of words.

And to be clear, my words and mannerisms seem to piss a fair number of people off in real life too ;).

4818
General Earwa / Re: At this rate, I'll be 40 and he'll be dead
« on: October 20, 2013, 03:17:42 pm »
Truth, Auriga.

Well, I suppose I should rephrase and suggest perhaps that these distinctions are showing regressions towards pre-modern trends?

4819
General Earwa / Re: Re: TSA related art and stuff.
« on: October 19, 2013, 01:48:08 pm »
Lol - I am grateful for what has been drawn at all. Thanks most recently to Somnambulist, Quinthane, and FB for gracing us.

4820
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: October 19, 2013, 01:43:00 pm »
That also raises the question that the curse of the Nroni fisherman "to never know if your children are your own" meaning that the Mandate probably use the cants of compulsion to fuck women and then cull the magical kids. 

Is this a misnomer? Is that line really used to describe the Nroni and the Ishroi?

Expanding on my thoughts that the Ishroi caste were like the Spartiate rather than Plato's Republic, here is a wiki reference that neatly covers my reasoning on the 'curse of the Ishro'i.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartiate

Sorry, Curethan, I've read that twice now - I can't seem to find where it says anything about they relationships except that because they marry late, birthrates are low (which is sourceless anyhow)?

Given that the nonmen were kind of like the Greek gods in their form and passions, I think we can see why their wives would be inclined to play around behind their backs.  We even have the example of Cimoira where a high ranked Ishroi's wife got jiggy with Sirwatta, a human slave.

That same instance mentions the Judges of the Ishroi, which sounds like another sub-category within nonman society.

"The Judges of the Ishroi were perplexed: such a thing had never happened before" (TTT Glossary, p543). It's not enough data? But the Judges line does suggest some internal oversight.

Also interesting is the effect of hereditary sorcery.  [1]Does this mean that Quya were also comprised of females prior to the womb plague?  [2]Did this require both parents be Quya?  [3]What was the incidence of the Few amongst nonmen? It certainly seems like they were more common than amongst men.  Perhaps 1/2000 rather than 1/200,000 (my rough estimation).

1. At this point, we could hazard either way about the gender rules. I'm going to guess that females were for now.

2. Quya borne definitely would have had two Quyan parents - it'd be like 'noble bloodline' except that the purity of your bloodline determines sorcerous ability. I'm sure the hereditary Quya took relations very seriously (I'm thinking like sorcerous Bene Gesserit).

3. I'm not sure about your ratios (they could be accurate?) but in lieu of possible answer [2], I'm thinking that the Nonmen would have tried to avoid the results of inbreeding but if requiring both Quyan parents, there is certainly going to be a higher population than occurring randomly in human population especially depending how many initial separate lineages there were.

Su'juriot possibly adds more fuel to my theory that being Quya is incidental to the qualities required for rule.  Why else the special designation as 'Witch-king'.  Surely this serves to differentiate him from a standard king. ;)

Truth...

4821
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The Ground, the Void and the Outside.
« on: October 19, 2013, 01:28:07 pm »
Lol'd.

4822
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: October 18, 2013, 04:33:56 pm »
More groundless speculation.

Since Quya are hereditary sorcerers, it seems likely to me that Quyan Families would organize around each other. I get a vary mafia-like feeling from this speculation.

As noted in human society, rogue sorcerers are a threat to status-quo. You can't have that accounted for power, running around as an x-factor. In human society, the Schools arose due to the condemnation of sorcery by the Tusk (which seems to throw a wrench into the Siqu founding the Schools or the Schools reflecting the particularities of Patron Siqu?). Chorae became a check and balance against the Schools, lest cities and states become a reflection of High Ainon.

In Nonmen Society, Chorae didn't exist to occupy the same social niche. For a functional society, the same rule of power applies; you can't just have rogue sorcerers doing what they want with society due to their individual power.

Now we don't know how the Nonmen Kings became Kings (and Curethan offered a pretty tight dissociation that either Nin'janjin or Cu'jara Cinmoi wasn't Quya, therefore negating sorcery as a prerequisite for rule). However, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Su'juroit became the Witch-King strictly due to his sorcerous ability (and/or possible demonic possession by an agency ;)).

Overall, it seems to make sense to me that Quya being hereditary sorcerers would put 'the family' first as it were, which would make them one pillar of social structure - it certainly seems to make them a greater fulcrum than simply being a 'noble family,' if your whole family is sorcerous.

Food for thought.

4823
Introduce Yourself / Re: Hey
« on: October 18, 2013, 01:58:53 pm »
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Mac.

I invite you to record your thoughts for The Almanac (which is the stalled forum reread) and create new threads for chapters if you do record.

Also, Nerdanel was a forum poster on Westeros who disappeared from posting sometime after TJE came out. Nerdanel had the most outlandish theories. Now Nerdanel has become synonymous with our nerdanels :).

It's like Marklar.

4824
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: October 18, 2013, 01:55:30 pm »
He is a prolific writer, Davias. And yes, he offers plenty of commentary on his times and ancient Rome, which he held in the highest regard (often unfairly over his contemporaries). I'm doing a seminar course on him right now that requires a 3h presentation ???.

The Art of War (I'm not sure he'd have known of Sun Tzu's title)
The Discourses

And while everyone should read the The Tercets on Fortune, his plays were pretty awesome.

The Prince the go-to suggestion, obviously.

4825
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: October 18, 2013, 01:45:41 pm »
To minimize commentary on damnation - sci and I had the makings of a grand theory, which unfortunately ties these two subjects together. The Topoi that form due to the mines of the Nonmen and their treatment of the Emwama make it a social issue.

More importantly, we know absolutely nothing about Nonmen gender relations. Did they share humanity's gender prohibition of sorcery, for instance?

How much can we actually take from the Curse of the Ishroi line. Is it clandestine, 'cheating,' or is it state-sanctioned like I think Curethan is suggesting?

Not to detract from you suggestions, Auriga, I'm just not sure how much conjecture we can actually support right now.

4826
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: October 17, 2013, 05:25:15 pm »
Lots and lots of Niccolo Machiavelli... heaps, if you will.

4827
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:39:53 pm »
Those are all from ZTS, neh? Just trying to place the quotes in mine mind.

Good stuff, Curethan.

Hrm.

4828
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The Ground, the Void and the Outside.
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:38:29 pm »
Pish... save your apologies for the funeral pyre. You've done no wrong here - after all, as the Inchoroi who would later become known as Aurang says, “You are already damned. All of you are already damned.

4829
Literature / Re: Gentlemen Bastard Series by Scott Lynch
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:33:54 pm »
Interesting. I didn't know that Irons had borne an Irons the II, which is awesome :).

4830
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The Ground, the Void and the Outside.
« on: October 17, 2013, 05:04:49 am »
LMAO!

EAMD ;).

Curethan, Wilshire quoted sci's quote from the previous page, which is itself linked from the interview.

That is the only time angelic Ciphrang have been mentioned and, as Wilshire suggests, we might have taken the quote too literally...

Hrm :o.

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