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Messages - Onrack

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16
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
« on: July 31, 2016, 10:11:08 pm »
I admit to a bit of confusion with that last Malowebi POV. So the Kellman cuts off his head, and puts a demon one it's place, which then starts looking like Malowebi? I didn't think you had to behead someone to possess the body. And why would Malowebi's body have sorcerous power without his head and the knowledge that comes with?

Also, did Zsoronga die last book, and I just completely forgot about it? No real mention of him in the book that I can recall. I was also a tad disappointed that we didn't get another check in on those two grunts at the beginning of the first Aorsi chapter, was nice to get their perspective. Though given how deranged the Ordeal became, perhaps it was a blessing to not get more of their PoV.

17
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Meppa is...
« on: July 31, 2016, 10:00:12 pm »
My first thought was that Kellhus may want to study the Psukhe for some reason, but then it seems fairly self-explanatory, driven by passion and so on...It does seem odd to keep him alive.


18
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] The Parts Appalling
« on: July 31, 2016, 09:58:03 pm »
Quote from: The Great Scald on July 19, 2016, 10:07:50 pm
Quote
I was just curious to know what parts of the book all of you found to be the most disturbing.

Bakker's repeated use...of ellipses...and italics to emphasize profundity.
Ha! There were a couple of moments where that got to me too. Loads of chapters ending on dramatic, short sentences

"And we are the bread" dun Dun DUN


19
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] The Parts Appalling
« on: July 31, 2016, 09:48:09 pm »
Just finished the book, definitely worth the wait, my god. I'd say that this book has more concentrated awful than probably the whole first trilogy combined.

-Saubon being dragged to hell. Felt kind of bad for the guy even though he was obviously an asshole, especially since he'd just started believing.
-Normally you don't find too many likeable characters in this series, but Bakker introduced two in this book and killed em both off, in Koringhus and Oinaral. When Koringhus jumped, damn that got me. Oirinal being killed by his own father as well.
-The entire descent into the depths of Ishteribinth. I don't think anyone's ever devised a more awful fate for a fictional race. The whole idea that that is better than damnation makes it all the worse.
-Proyas being raped, of course. I always kind of root for the guy, very surprised he survived this book in all honesty.
-Thelli and Inrilatas.
-The descriptions following the nuke were pretty vivid. Really, most of the Great Ordeal in this book was horrific stuff to read. Made Mimira and Achamian's adventures seem like a fucking lighthearted subplot.

I'm sure there's so much more but I'm reeling a bit. Now to read all the existing discussion.

20
The Darkness That Comes Before / Re: First Appearance of the No God
« on: July 06, 2016, 10:38:04 pm »
I SEE Thanks guys, glad to see I wasn't just being careless.

An interesting creative choice from Bakker. Seems odd for it not to be referenced at least at the end, but I suppose he wanted to keep some things mysterious.

21
The Darkness That Comes Before / First Appearance of the No God
« on: July 06, 2016, 11:21:24 am »
So I've almost finished re-reading Darkness, and I've been fairly surprised that The No God hasn't appeared in any of Akka's visions. I always recalled the No God and his various questions being recurring throughout every book. Have I somehow just skipped over a couple of pages? Or does the Mog man himself only make his debut in Warrior Prophet?

A rather frivolous question, though I want to make sure I haven't missed any hints. Got a feeling we'll be getting Moggie back in some form this coming book...

22
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: June 22, 2016, 01:15:00 am »
I've been meaning to get around to that but I'd forgotten, thanks themerchant. Will read it soon.

23
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets (2016) - Totals and Specifics
« on: June 17, 2016, 08:44:02 pm »
Quote from: MSJ on June 17, 2016, 04:45:27 pm
Quote from: Onrack on June 17, 2016, 04:31:35 pm
For my money, the Dagger and Coin gets better with each successive volume. The setting is underdeveloped at times, but my god does he know how to write a character arc. Have yet to read the final book, though I can't imagine it all crashing down. Particularly since he nailed the ending of The Long Price.

I've read TLPQ and really enjoyed it. Getting ready to start The Wheel of Osheim, and hopefully TGO will be out and I can take my time with it on a re-read. When I'm done with those, I'm gonna give Dagger&Coin a go.
How is that new Lawrence series so far? I quite liked the Broken Empire, even if I found ending disappointing and rushed.

24
General Earwa / Re: History of Earwa from Wert
« on: June 17, 2016, 04:38:47 pm »
These entries are definitely quite gripping. As well as being loaded with new information, for me at least. I really should re-read the TTT glossary.

Second entry was a bit more clunky, but I suppose that's a result of there being less of a clear arc as in Inchoroi vs Nonmen. Lots of Empires falling and growing in a few short paragraphs.

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Literature / Re: Yearly Targets (2016) - Totals and Specifics
« on: June 17, 2016, 04:31:35 pm »
For my money, the Dagger and Coin gets better with each successive volume. The setting is underdeveloped at times, but my god does he know how to write a character arc. Have yet to read the final book, though I can't imagine it all crashing down. Particularly since he nailed the ending of The Long Price.

26
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: June 14, 2016, 03:52:31 pm »
Wait, September? I'm in Ireland, so I'll be counting on the UK as well. That is quite a bummer. I see the hardcover listed for early July on amazon, but it also says it's unavailable...I thought Orbit were better than Overlook at getting stuff out.

27
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: June 14, 2016, 05:56:31 am »
Was that definitely Onkis saying run? I thought that was just Inrau's own mind, but I suppose given the intervention of the gods in later books it makes sense. I'm definitely on the lookout for similar head on poll imagery now, that's for sure.

And oh good, I'm not entirely alone! I saw the talk of spoilers over there, will most certainly be avoiding those threads till I get a copy. I assume the secret forum will be re-integrated into the forum later? Would be nice to be able to read those posts eventually.

28
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO Teasers) Promo Illustrations through Overlook
« on: June 14, 2016, 05:44:53 am »
Gorgeous! And an especially good image for me, still wondering about that creepy passage.

29
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: June 14, 2016, 05:34:40 am »
It's not me! What a weird coincidence if it is one, they're even doing their first re-read too! It really is very interesting, perhaps something related to how one can achieve godhood? Could also be a metaphor illustrating that physical form is irrelevant in the Outside.

Having read the rest of the Westeros, I'm disappointed to find out that most people already seem to have procured a copy and are discussing it already. Would be nice to be able to speculate along, oh well. I'm sure there'll still be a ton to discuss when I get mine in July, there always is with these books.

30
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGOSpoilers]Crazy thoughts from reading the chapters/extracts that have dropped
« on: June 11, 2016, 10:03:24 pm »
Quote from: Darzin on June 10, 2016, 03:39:38 am
I don't think damnation is the only thing which happens in the outside I think it's just once side of the "harvest" some the gods reward some the gods punish.

Quote
He comes to the shore that is here, always here, gazes without sight across waters that are fire, and sees the Sons swimming, lolling and bloated and bestial, raising babes as wineskins, and drinking deep their shrieks.

Quote
He has always hidden, always watched, where Other Sons, recline, drinking from bowls that are skies, savoring the moaning broth of the Countless, bloating for the sake of bloat, slaking hungers like chasms, pits that eternity had rendered Holy ...

The place of shrieks and the place of moans are very different places one is fire,one is skies and one has moaning and one has shrieking. The gods feed on emotion not pain. Think of pain as a flavor like steak, and pleasure as a flavor like ice cream, some souls taste better with sprinkles and some with salt. That is what damnation is making your soul go with pain and not pleasure.

Indecently I do have a crackpot theory about the sons in the "place of skies" Given that the sons in the "place of fire" seem designed to produce pain, I wonder if the angelic ciprang we have been told about look like actual angels as in beautiful women and the place of skies produces pleasure through a constant orgy. This would fit Bakker's themes of peoples lot in life being improved because of pragmatism rather than altruism. The gods give us ecstasy because they need our ecstasy, not because they love us.

Very interesting, that definitely sounds like it's accurate. One aspect of this process I'm confused about however, is how does the Tusk and human belief fit in? Is the Outside completely impervious to human belief, and the Gods just arbitrarily design rules based on whatever tasty brand of human soul they like to gobble up? I've come to understand the objective morality of Earwa is a fact, but does this solely derive from the whims of the Gods?

Another aspect I'm curious about: I thought that desire was the root of damnation, but it seems like desire can also lead to the things that may be "rewarded" by some Gods.

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