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Messages - Monkhound

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151
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: August 23, 2016, 06:16:34 pm »
Yeah I agree with Cynical Cat. Especially since Malowebi had a moment where he apparently realized that all he had to do was add his voice to Meppa's and Kellhus would finally be over-matched. His indecision leads to his..."death"

I suppose that's true, but I'm not entirely convinced. Rather than hide within the wards of a hesitating combatant, he could easily have teleported right behind Meppa instead and blasted him into hell. Instead, he pops into the Chalice and knocks down Malowebi and inspects the wards now receiving the full force of Meppa's assault:

Quote from: p.447
It was as if the sun itself crashed upon the Muzzû Chalice. Malowebi could hear nothing, but through the black gauze of his omba he could see him standing, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, more curious than alarmed, craning his head about to inspect the Ward that preserved him.

This is why I think the surprise is not so much directed at Meppa, but at the power of Malowebi's Zeümi (supposedly) Anagogic wards.

152
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 23, 2016, 09:20:12 am »
"Doom, should you find me broken."

Maybe the seal was broken 2,000 years ago, by the first Dunyain.

If they got their hands on the scroll, that would have some interesting implications.
Forks within forks within forks :)

153
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 23, 2016, 06:20:07 am »
Siol is in the northeastern part of Earwa, on the border with Eanna. This is where the Breaking of the Gates occurred. I've always thought Ishual was part of an old Nonman Mansion, not so sure anymore. Akka and Mimara remark how different it is to Cil-Aujus. No ornamentation, devoid of art, strictly mathematical and precise. Which leads me to believe the Dunyâin did indeed build the Thousand Thousand Halls. Celmommas built Ishual proper, probably with the help of Nonmen, I'm sure. But, when hiding from the World, there is only one way to go....down. And, undoubtedly it fit with their goals to weed out the weak and aid in training.

Good to know that, although it doesn't explain how the Dunyain knew there was a safe haven there. To decide to flee there, they may either have been privy to King Kel's information, or have knowledge of a prior settlement... Or have been extremely lucky, but that would be disappointing.

The difference was mainly explained in how Cil-Aujas is much more decorated whereas Ishual was bare. Removal of all non-relevant pieces/parts from the halls would be a Dunyain approach of cleansing/conditioning of the ground. It would also be an illustration of how the Dunyain shed a lot of their human traits through the breeding program.
On the other hand the TTH could also simply be a Dunyain reproduction of a Nonman mansion.

154
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 22, 2016, 10:48:27 pm »
I really severely doubt that Ishual was built in any capacity by The Dunyain.  We've bandied the idea around (or at least, I have) that Ishual is an abandoned Nonman mansion.  From it's name being Ihrimsu to Kellhus remarking how the mansion at Kyudea looked so much like Ishual leads me to conclude there is  really no way the Dunyain made Ishual in any capacity, let alone dug out the massive complex that is The Thousand Thousand Halls.

To throw a few questions out there:
1- Do we know the location of the ruins of the Nonman mansion of Siöl, since it is mentioned so frequently? Could Ishual have been built on to of it, assuming the theory that Ishual was built on top of a Nonman mansion?

2- It's probably a stretch, but by reading the words aloud, you could pronounce Ishual and Siöl in a similar way (I-Shial or I-Shiöl vs Shial or Shiöl). I have a strong liking for philology and searching for etymological development of words and pronunciation, so this popped up. Any thoughts?

3- Do we know anything about the original people calling themselves the Dunyain, besides the very first part in TDTCB? How did they know how to get to Ishual, since it was a secret refuge/location created by Anasurimbor Kelmomas?

And a jump-in question since Kyudea is mentioned:
I remember a passage in TTT about a war between the twin cities of Shimeh and Kyudea for control of Amoteu, where Kyudea is destroyed and laid to ruin. This looks like a Samarmas/Kelmomas (or a 0 and 1) parallel to me. How do twins tie into the development of the Dunyain?

155
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: August 22, 2016, 10:07:33 pm »
Now the question is if Cishaurim are normally allowed to have families. It's certainly different from other schools, but that would be far from the only difference.

Further...Meppa seems to have an unprecedented level of power. Even Kellhus expressed surprise. Is this the result of the raw depths of his grief and hatred, or something else?

We don't know that much about Meppa, as far as I can remember, but Esmenet seems to recognise him as a Primary and he is mentioned as such later on, which would put him at a considerable strength, even though Kellhus decimated the whole upper echelon of the Cishaurim at the Battle of Shimeh by himself.
The fact that Kellhus simply jumped into Malowebi's wards, suggests there is no surprise at Meppa's (Mark-less) surprise assault.

I'm not sure but I get the impression the surprise "Such Power..."(p. 447) by Kellhus is directed at the ease and power of Malowebi's warding Muzzu Chalice, rather than the demonstration of the Psukhe: The realization that Zeüm is a threat to be contained, rather than to be left in peace.

156
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Head on a pole
« on: August 21, 2016, 09:26:10 pm »
And it is kellhus version of samarmis. As the passage indicates, he's always had a second secret voice (Ala samarmis.)

Which we know since Shimeh (TTT), when Kellhus tells his father. Moënghus then declares the trial has broken Kellhus and rendered him mad. Borrowed my book to a friend, so I can't quote it.
But I had not drawn the parallel with the Celmomas/Samarmas situation.

157
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 21, 2016, 10:15:40 am »
Quote from: Locke
Quote
Rage--Goddess! Sing of your flight,
From our fathers and our sons.
Away, Goddess! Secret your divinity!
From the conceit that makes kings of fools
From the scrutiny that makes corpses of souls.
Mouths open, arms thrown wide, we beseech thee:
Sing us the end of your song.

They did hoist Anarlû’s head high,
And poured down its blood as fire.
And the ground gave forth many sons,
Ninety nine who were as Gods,
And so bid their fathers
Be as sons…

What would be the link between the Cunuroi song and Koringhus's 99 and hundredth stones, as well as the head on a pole in the Kellhus chapters? I'd almost suspect we've already had hints about it in TPON.

158
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: August 21, 2016, 10:01:59 am »
Thanks for activating my account. I've been a fan since shortly after the release of TDTCB, but never got around to this place  :)

Maybe it's just me,  but did anyone else notice the first Decapitant was "activated" (for lack of a better word) very short after Saubon dies at Dagliash, and this might be the Daimotic aspect of the Exalt-General who had no issue with slaughtering thousands? We know he's damned from the last entries when he dies.
Based on all the "preparation" we see from Kellhus in the Aörsi/Dagliash chapters, and we know everything Kellhus does is calculated, I somehow expect the other Exalt-General to become the second one.

Also I remember an Anagogic spell "Meppa's Cataract" being mentioned somewhere during my recent re-read-through of the whole series. Does anyone remember what and where? I was reminded of that when Meppa unleashes the power of the Nile Psukhe on Kellhus/Malowebi.

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