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Messages - BeardFisher-King

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31
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 28, 2018, 02:31:47 am »
Quote from:  BFK
Well, MSJ informs us that there's all kinds of random crap hidden away, most of it valuable. There's gotta be a sealed room with a sign saying "Open ONLY in the event of extraterrestrial invasion!"

I'm not getting what you mean here?
Sorry, MSJ, that's a reference to our Vatican discussion (the Coffers!) and to my little joke about a mysterious black Sarcophagus hidden among the valuables. Wouldn't that be something?

32
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 27, 2018, 11:58:12 pm »
Quote
Unless.....there's a mysterious black Sarcophagus....

I laughed hard at this one, BFK - brilliant response  :)
Well, MSJ informs us that there's all kinds of random crap hidden away, most of it valuable. There's gotta be a sealed room with a sign saying "Open ONLY in the event of extraterrestrial invasion!"
Quote

Tangent to the discussion on the history of religious war, I proffer that religion is so ingrained in human history, so much of the human experience, that to say what it would be like without it is like saying what would we have been like if we didn't have the opposable thumb, prohibiting the grasp of a gun. Even if any/all religions "are wrong", it's significance saturates human reality so much so it transcends the significance of it's accuracy. So much is going on with religion on so many levels, to dismiss it as mere manipulation is to overly simplify perhaps the most powerful moving sociological force in human history with several of you yielding so much ground to it that you're "blaming" it for most of the wars.
Exactly right, my friend. The fact that the religious impulse is so ingrained in humanity is the only way it makes any sense at all to blame a modern war like WWII on religion.

33
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Imaginative Conservative
« on: January 27, 2018, 11:38:32 pm »
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2018/01/read-write-poetry-dwight-longenecker.html

"Why You Should Read And Write Poetry"

Why? Emotions, language, imagination.

34
General Misc. / BFK's Music Corner
« on: January 27, 2018, 04:32:42 pm »
I am starting this thread for anyone who wants to delve a little deeper into the aesthetics and/or the "Tekne" of the music in which he/she is interested. "Tekne" talk could range from the tech of musical instruments (love the Moog synthesizer!) to virtuosity to music theory.

I'm a very inactive amateur pianist these days, but I still have some  vestigial chops. I think my ear is improving, simply due to the fact that I listen to so much music. Right now, I'm listening to a compilation of Mozart piano concertos pretty steadily and I'm gaining an appreciation for the brilliance of the classical formal structure. Three movements; fast-slow-fast; each movement states a theme, develops it, then returns to it. That's a wild oversimplification, of course, and there are other formal structures (suite based on dance forms, e.g.). But one always knows where one is and where one is going. Timeless music.

35
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 27, 2018, 12:20:21 am »
Quote from:  BFK
The collegial, respectful attitude that you foster here at the TSA Forum is an example of what all Christians, indeed, all people should strive for.

Quote from:  Madness
It's important to remember that the average person of any creed/ideology isn't able to have the conversation we're having right now. This might render us all heretics to the average embedded faithful.

No, its a testament to what you and Wilshire and many other have created. A place discuss an issue like Religion and someone not totally flip out.

Hey, your dad could've just watched Ancient Aliens! ;)
^ Can't reiterate this enough. I've been on a number of forums but this is the first one where I could discuss my religious views and have this kind of discussion. This is not normal for the internet or maybe even real life for that matter. Truth be told, you guys have likely given my posts more courtesy than their content actually deserves.

It probably helps that you make an effort to include new members on the podcast. I suspect establishing that vocal connection fosters a bit more civility than we would otherwise have.
The judicious brandishing and occasional application of the BanHammer certainly helps.... ;)

36
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 26, 2018, 09:30:20 pm »
Quote from:  BFK
Yes, but those followers are scattered all over the world and, more importantly, they are citizens of actual nations. The Vatican's worldly power is limited to its ability to influence actual worldly political powers. It has no geopolitical power. Influence, yes. Power, no. In fact, I seriously doubt that the Vatican could survive as a city-state if it hadn't been "grandfathered" in as a result of its historic location in Old Europe.

I stand corrected, influence is a much better word. But, influence does yield power. For the Vatican, it keeps them safe as you said, as a autonomous nation.

You still didn't answer....what would give or pay to visit their coffers?
Not really an interest of mine, to be honest. Isn't a lot of Vatican wealth in the form of valuable artworks? So.....a truly excellent museum? Unless.....there's a mysterious black Sarcophagus..... ;)

37
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 26, 2018, 09:18:06 pm »
Quote from:  BFK
The wealth of the Vatican doesn't give it worldly political power.
 

Oh, what would pay/give to see their coffers? The Holy Coffers, Boys!

The Vatican is a worldly power because of the amount of followers they have and its.....A LOT.
Yes, but those followers are scattered all over the world and, more importantly, they are citizens of actual nations. The Vatican's worldly power is limited to its ability to influence actual worldly political powers. It has no geopolitical power. Influence, yes. Power, no. In fact, I seriously doubt that the Vatican could survive as a city-state if it hadn't been "grandfathered" in as a result of its historic location in Old Europe.

38
Philosophy & Science / Re: The Imaginative Conservative
« on: January 26, 2018, 08:08:16 pm »
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/06/what-is-distributism.html

Distributism, the original "small is beautiful" movement.

39
Philosophy & Science / The Imaginative Conservative
« on: January 26, 2018, 08:06:19 pm »

40
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 26, 2018, 07:40:29 pm »
The wealth of the Vatican doesn't give it worldly political power. Wealth is not a source of political power. Plutocracies, if they exist, are not powerful. I would consider them the equivalent of gated communities or tax-shelter nations. Powerful enough to be left alone, and that's pretty much the geopolitical status of the Vatican.

41
General Misc. / Re: The Joe Rogan Experience
« on: January 26, 2018, 07:05:57 pm »
Sorry, couldn't even get past the self-promotion and sponsors. According to the notes, Schermer is a science writer, a historian of science, and "King of the Skeptics" (jk, jk...a little levity, no offense....).

His book looks interesting: "The Scientific Search For The Afterlife, Immortality and Utopia". I will go with the written word. Thanks for the link, Madness!

It's a little over two hours of listening. I'm sure it won't take you that long to dismiss him and save yourself the purchase.
Wow.......................................well, OK, then.

As an amateur student of philosophy who was quite the skeptic back in the day (still have my copy of "Atheism: The Case Against God" purchased in the late 70s), I am interested in most forms of skepticism. I'm not, however, interested in Joe Rogan, his touring schedule, or in which state he thinks the city of Charlotte is located.

But, as I said, thanks for the link.

42
General Misc. / Re: The Joe Rogan Experience
« on: January 26, 2018, 05:03:56 pm »
Sorry, couldn't even get past the self-promotion and sponsors. According to the notes, Shermer is a science writer, a historian of science, and "King of the Skeptics" (jk, jk...a little levity, no offense....).

His book looks interesting: "The Scientific Search For The Afterlife, Immortality and Utopia". I will go with the written word. Thanks for the link, Madness!


43
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 26, 2018, 03:05:31 pm »
Hey, how 'bout ol' BFK referring to the tenets of his faith as "idiosyncratic metaphysical preoccupations"?

Now that's philosophical detachment!

44
A bit of Fry and Laurie for a Friday morning:
https://youtu.be/6riY-103vbc

"Sing the song!" "I'm singing the song, Oren! Don't tell me to sing the song!"

(Hugh Laurie has mastered the American accent!)

45
Philosophy & Science / Re: What do you believe? (Redux)
« on: January 26, 2018, 01:58:01 pm »
Today's pressing problem is the alienation of individuals and the lack of community, so any and all attempts to build new ways to connect are welcome, in my opinion. And I hope you'll agree that the preservation of what's good within faith communities is worth the toleration of idiosyncratic metaphysical preoccupations.
Slow work, indeed. The easy part is disparaging entire groups and saying 'get rid of all of it!' (basically what I've more/less said so far). The hard work is actually trying to find a workable solution that is possible within the confines of the reality that we live in.

To that end, I'd absolutely admit that identifying and preserving what's been done correctly in faith communities is a worthy endeavor. Prayer, as an obvious example, when done in groups (like before dinner), is a suburb way of telling people you care about them. Being told you're cared about is deeply satisfying and I'm sure has all kinds of measurable positive psychological effects, but I don't imagine most people would willing hold hands in a group and tell those people they love them - family or not. Its somehow easier when you're speaking affirmations and being grateful, to do so at/to a third part, rather than directly to a person/group.
Very astute observation, Wilshire. The sad fact is that we are all isolated selves, and it is so hard to trust/connect/love others. We want to reach out, but we fear rejection. So, eventually, we look beyond this world for help. Your example of praying at dinner is so on-target. Other examples abound: gathering for weddings and funerals. Similar impulses apply; we want to express our love, concern and hopes for the new couple, and we want to honor the life of the one who has passed. But so many uncertainties assail us, so we unite under the protection of a third party, and petition in His name

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