Thanks guys is it ever made clear why they've decided to take more overt action and become more active at that time, after 300 years of being invisible?


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Hmmm, I think things are just coming to a head, so to say. Aurang, says at the end of TDTCB, that he will be free of this world very soon. So, I believe we're just seeing the beginning of what is The Second Apocalypse. That's my take anyway.

Quinthane, I've thought the same every time I read it. Doesn't see like a thing of flesh like the sranc would even be capable of such a thing.

Quote from: Camlost on December 22, 2015, 03:53:59 pm

Quick question, it may have been addressed somewhere else but if it has I can't recall it. How does Moe recognize skin-spies? I might be mistaken but I thought the explanation for Kellhus recognizing them is more or less that he physically sees them, that they form a simulacrum of a face that is incongruous with everything he has been taught and that difference betrays them. But how does Moe recognize them with his eyes put out? I wouldn't doubt that he knew Skaeos was a skin-spy from espionage and intellect, but can he recognize a new one? Can he perceive the absence of a soul much the way the Few perceive the bruising of the Onta?

Quick answer is that moe didn't blind himself until the encounter with kellhus

Locke, I agree. He didn't blind his self til he had the passion required to wield the Meta-Psûkhe.

Ok, so what do you think happened in that final scene? I love your takes on these kinds things.

Bolivar, what other goals or agendas could the Consult have? I've always been on board that their goal is to avoid damnation. In fact, I see nothing else it could be. I could be wrong though, nothing unusual about that.

I love this thread. I think Som put forth that Meppa is Cnaüir/Moe, Only the chorae stopped the transfer. I disagree, I believe the chorae finished the transfer. Meppa is so powerful because he has the well of passion that is Cnaüir. As for the amnesia, well he is still Dunyain, and it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that Moe could pull off that lie. I also like the idea that whatever want down in Kyudea, was transfered to a completely other person. That would then account for the nut brown skin. I don't really think that has to be the case though, since Cnaüir has spent the last couple of years in the deserts of Kian. The Swazond? No longer there, they are what healed them and was part of the transfer, imo. Just everything previous to Moe and Cnaüir in that cavern, imho, points to Moe having already thought this through and being yet again, a step ahead of Kellhus.

I'll buy what Locke is selling, for the most part.  I'm definitely on board with him finding only what Maithanet wanted him to find.

I don't think Maithanet and Moe could have planned for the Consult killing him, but it happened and the end result is nearly the same.

As for the Simas agent, if we follow this along as Moe created, then was this possibly the first attempt, or an proof of concept for soul-transfer, a la, Meppa?

I was thinking the same thing. Last night I re-read the scene between Moe and Kellhus. And you know what? I think so. I've always been a fervent believer that Moe+Cnaüir=Meppa. And so much in that exchange points to Kellhus being duped yet again. The skull, Kellhus specifically saying that yes he is on conditioned ground. The skull, it all goes back to that for me. Its the point, even his exchange right before the kick, is where Kellhus is simply being played. Indeed 30 years Moe has had to condition this exchange. I don't want to go on to much more about this, but I have some new thoughts on this. Passion is what Moe was lacking, correct? He needed Kellhus just as much as he needed Cnaüir.