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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by Wilshire on Today at 06:14:26 pm »
Its difficult, when we have these conversations going on with people who have different degrees of familiarity.
Harmless jokes between two people is an outrageous insult to the person standing next to him.

FWIW, I did see MSJ/TM's exchange as joking. Unfortunately, in a place this public it's rarely ever that simple.

IRL we don't typically have this issue for various reasons, but I'd like to thank you guys to attempting to coexist here :) .
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by MSJ on Today at 02:16:30 pm »
Well, Tleilaxu, I'm sorry but I don't see it as a caricature. Quite frankly Im offended, tbh. You don't know me or my background. I have 3 sisters whom are half-black, we share the same mother. To make a comment that I would the N-word and paint me as a racist, quote frankly is very rude. Just because you have different views on the subject, doesn't mean we have to resort to name calling and making judgments on each other. The comment to Merchant was a joke and he got that. Wasn't even directed at you.
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by Wilshire on Today at 12:45:28 pm »
Thanks, tleilaxu.

I edited my last post there about 30 times because I had a similar issue. If you'd like to edit yours in-thread and, eh, rephrase it, please do.

I didn't see that comment by MSJ, sorry. Tensions are high, clearly both comments are out of line - whether in jest or otherwise, given the present tone.
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by tleilaxu on Today at 12:44:08 pm »
I apologize, I didn't actually mean for the tone to be so scathing in that post, it's just the best response I could gather right at that moment to the "get on your knees comment". I couldn't just leave it alone because it indicates a pretty toxic attitude, but at the same time I was stumped as to how to properly respond to it, so I thought caricaturic humour would be appropriate but now I realize what I wrote is kind of a mess.
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by Wilshire on Today at 12:23:09 pm »
[Edit: tleilaxu apologized below. Thank you for helping us keep this forum great :) ]
While not the first offender in this particular thread, I believe so far that it was the most egregious.

Merch, you can paint is as the evil empire, go ahead. I don't believe it. Without us WWII would of been lost and Europe wouldn't exist. Get down on your knees and give thanks to Merica' everyday of your God giving life. ;)
"My country saved yours 70 years ago, now get down and suck my tiny circumcised and diabetes-ridden American cock and accept every shitty thing we've done since then", MSJ said as he fired his assault rifle from the top of his mobility scooter, accidentally killing an unarmed black man in the process. "Thank the Lawd Jesus for our every burger and french fry" he shouted loudly while driving over the Nigger's corpse and tipping his MAGA cap.

Honestly, resorting to name calling is embarrassing. If you have to resort to straw man arguments you might as well not be posting.

Or, put another way, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".


tleilaxu, what was your goal in posting this?
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by codebread on August 16, 2017, 08:16:51 pm »
I here ya codebread.  Certainly not my intent to make people feel ostracized, and for that, I do apologize.

I was feeling attacked. As if I had somehow betrayed people helping organizing this whole thing. It takes a lot of hours to plan, a lot of hours to coordinate things, time and money to get swag (posters, patches, etc.), etc. etc. etc. And I got upset, because i felt that somehow me spending all this effort therefore makes me owe someone who showed up after the party and was upset we didn't save them cake. I am not a trained monkey, I don't preform on demand, though probably I would for tips :P . Because I felt attacked, I immediately went on the defensive - which was stupid.

Seems a bit strange to immediately go on the attack - calling me names no less - because I didn't do something they wanted.  Again, as if I haven't spent hundreds of hours facilitating this communities existence. Now, I can see how my comment could be read in a way that makes it sound bad. I do. And again, I'm sincerely sorry for that. But, I don't think there is a generous way to interpret Spooky's post, but I'll let them defend their position should they choose too.

Honestly, I understand and sympathize with your position. I co-own a small company and I frequently organize or sit at the helm of various things, so I know the feeling of people being ungrateful and thinking they are owed something. I just wanted to poke you to be better than them, considering you're one of the few who help run this community.

As for the rest of it, I was really just getting at dismissing how difficult it is for some people to go by simply saying, "come next year". Hell, I'm in Boston and I couldn't afford the time or money to make the trip. Of course I'm also not going to bitch and moan if I don't get to see/hear/read what happened that weekend, but I can understand if people feel left out just because they simply had no means to attend. Assuming it's as simple as being willing to go is what's out of touch with reality. I'm really just borrowing an argument from discussions about education for those living in poverty; "just go to college" isn't as easy as it sounds for everyone.

TL;DR No one owes anyone anything, except gratitude for you guys putting the event together and sharing information. Just gotta be nice to each other because there's barely any of us in comparison to other communities.

Edit: Also, yeah, Spooky was more out of line than you were if you ask me. I'm just holding you to a higher standard I guess :P
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by Wilshire on August 16, 2017, 07:36:09 pm »
I here ya codebread.  Certainly not my intent to make people feel ostracized, and for that, I do apologize.

I was feeling attacked. As if I had somehow betrayed people helping organizing this whole thing. It takes a lot of hours to plan, a lot of hours to coordinate things, time and money to get swag (posters, patches, etc.), etc. etc. etc. And I got upset, because i felt that somehow me spending all this effort therefore makes me owe someone who showed up after the party and was upset we didn't save them cake. I am not a trained monkey, I don't preform on demand, though probably I would for tips :P . Because I felt attacked, I immediately went on the defensive - which was stupid.

Seems a bit strange to immediately go on the attack - calling me names no less - because I didn't do something they wanted.  Again, as if I haven't spent hundreds of hours facilitating this communities existence. Now, I can see how my comment could be read in a way that makes it sound bad. I do. And again, I'm sincerely sorry for that. But, I don't think there is a generous way to interpret Spooky's post, but I'll let them defend their position should they choose too.
---

Aside, to play devil's advocate for a minute (feel free to ignore, mostly rhetorical):
Is it out of touch with reality?
Who is owed what, and why?
How many hours are required to make one 'owed' the opportunity?
How many dollars?
How many posts?
Should we discriminate based on that criteria?
What of those that did 'pay' something, be it time, money, or both. What are they owed, and is it fair that they should have their experiences freely given to those who didn't? Exactly how much is owed, and why?
Some flew in from thousands of miles away to make it. Most spent hundreds of dollars. Some bummed a ride and a room from those generous to enough to share. Some spent years, years!, nurturing a relationship to allow this to even happen. The work that went into this has been years in the making, thousands of dollars, hundreds of man hours. Why does that make them owe anyone anything?

Isn't expecting something for nothing far more out of touch with reality?
More in touch would be to be more discriminating, not less. Maybe close the subforum down to people with less than, say, 250 posts. Let people earn their entertainment, yeah? After all, its not fair to expect something for nothing...

Of course, I'd never do that, but still the question: what's fair?
---

We are all just a community facilitating itself to exist. We are not in a business transaction. No contract, other than social, has been made. No one is owed anything other than the conversations we have here.
The exception is the rules that are set forth, which really just boils down to one thing: Facilitate conversation in a positive way, or get out. No one is above those rules, including myself. For breaking that rule, I have moved this conversation here to help better understand where I went wrong. I hope to learn and grow from the experience, and ask only that others try to do the same. For that, codebread, I thank you for calling me out. No hard feelings :) (smiley faces do help online communications due to the lack of non verbal ques, an aping of our ancient selves into this new medium. but a conversation for a later thread I think)
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by Wilshire on August 16, 2017, 07:33:48 pm »
Nope, you're absolutely correct codebread. I've got a post here I'm still writing, but seriously: thanks for calling me out.
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News/Announcements / Re: Building Better Community
« Last post by codebread on August 16, 2017, 06:48:18 pm »
I'd like to add to my previous post that, had I actually noticed the comments after the one I quoted, I wouldn't have posted anything because I think it was all cleared up nicely.

I should probably refresh my browser more often before typing something up :)
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Introduce Yourself / Re: Abstractions...
« Last post by Gnostic Cants on August 16, 2017, 06:45:59 pm »
Hello, All.

Longtime lurker/reader and one-time Overlook harasser (for holding TGO and TUC up). Finally joined.

Thanks for all the thinks and ideas over the years. Wish I could join the "conference" this month, but, alas, I cannot. Hope there's a place where it can be streamed (FB live?).

Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Gnostic Cants.

It happened last weekend. Bakker the Brother filmed a large portion of it, I'm working on audio transcriptions, and we have lots of pictures incoming. Also, a chance to win a Bakker-signed/Jason Deem/Overlook teaser image in poster size!

Thanks, Madness. Yeah, I realized after posting about the timing. I'm dumb.

Looking forward to getting to see/hear more. I think I replied correctly to be included in the drawing to win (not that it'll help -- I possess all the luck of an army of Malowebis).

Good to be here, among the skinnies.
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