Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10
Even when Wilshire advocates to first define the starting conditions of our theories, it might turn out to be completely unhelpful
Its always helpful in the sense that it gets people closer to talking about the same thing - not as a rigorous exercise to guarantee it, since that would include recursively deeper discussion on the darkness that comes before ;)
The Ark, The Inchoroi, The Progenitors - Okay, I am going to go ahead and jump into the clearly less popular opinion and side with Ajencis, that genius dude who was like "Wait wtf? There's no way they flew to other planets!"
There is a slight problem with this line of thinking. Many of Bakker's extratextual comments outright state that the Inchoroi indeed came from outer space and the Progenitors do have a homeworld other than Earwa. One of those comments is what I started my participation in this thread with:

Personally, I feel like that entry from TUC Glossary is a jab at the scientific method and its genre fiction counterpart, Theory of Narrative Causality (my apologies if you weren't exposed to TVTropes before; we will see you in six months). Scientists try to devise their theories by only using the proven facts and writers are encouraged to use only the elements that are properly set up and foreshadowed in their plots. But that's not how the world works. We never know whether we possess enough information to make a sound theory, and if we try to make a theory with just the facts that we have right now, then said theory might be spectacularly wrong. For example, it's way more logical for Ajencis that there is no space or other worlds (the way it was completely logical for our own ancestors) and the out-of-context threat of the Inchoroi and the No-God Earwa faces is actually very much an in-context one, coming from the Outside and its agencies. But Ajencis knows exactly nothing about the Inchoroi, their Ark, their history, etc. He is not in possession of even a fraction of the information available to many other characters, let alone us, readers.

He uses incomplete data and shoehorns it in a theory that suits his worldview and beliefs.

You know, just like we here often do when we discuss TSA. Because we expect Theory of Narrative Causality to be in effect, for one thing. And also because proving something is a lot of work, not to mention it isn't always possible, which is compounded by different people making different leaps of logic that cannot be reconciled with each other. This is also why philosophy is mired in endless disputation.

Even when Wilshire advocates to first define the starting conditions of our theories, it might turn out to be completely unhelpful, because many theories are based on what's called primitive notions. Those exist even in the context of something as simple as a book series, for example TSA (that's not to say TSA is a simple book series, of course). But they also exist in geometry (depending on the axiom system it might be point, plane, line, etc.) or math in general (number), or physics (time).

Bakker seems to be very aware of all of the problems outlined above, and it's very much to my liking. I'm pretty sure he helped me to better educate myself.
Really, I don't see how what I'm suggestion is hard to comprehend. Planet X had no direct link to the Outside, Gods couldn't meddle. Progenitors went searching for a planet with a direct link after they dug too deep and found the IF. Ajokli all the way down is waaaay more far-fetched then Kellhus still acting upon the TTT. I liked that post by the way, and would make for a great story. A true turn of events. We all knew the whirlwind was coming, not that big of a surprise.
You're talking about the strength of a connection (the existence of a direct link implies the possibility of an indirect one), while me and TLEILAXU are talking about the connection itself.

But by claiming the No-God is unaware of its existence, Bakker turns the No-God into just a chatty cathy doll.  There's nothing asking the questions because there's nothing there other than a speaker belching pre-programmed lines.  This is a good example of how Bakker's need to insert his philosophy into his story makes the story worse.
You lost me completely. This is only one way to understand the concept of philosophical zombie. Through a simple analogy that uses existing technology. The concept can be formulated more rigorously, which creates very interesting questions that, I feel, Bakker is trying to at least showcase.

The No-God is not at all made into a chat-bot by referring to it as a p-zombie and non-conscious.
The Unholy Consult / Re: What-if scenario
« Last post by TaoHorror on March 20, 2018, 12:43:54 am »
I feel it begs noting that this particular what-if is still well within the confines of "Kelmomas was always the No-God" conundrum.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing reading through this thread. Plenty of plausible scenarios he still ends up in The Ark - all it took was a skinspy looking like his mom to lure him in there.
The No-God / Re: Möenghus The Younger. Consult or Humanity?
« Last post by Old Gnostic Fool on March 20, 2018, 12:22:18 am »
I'd love to get a Consult POV again. They were surely missing throughout most of TAE. I do wonder how the Boy's story is going to tie in with the overarching plot.
I think it stands to reason though that it would be the case for the nature of the Outside-Inside relationship to be different for placed besides Eärwa.  If it wasn't, how did the Progenitors get so far but not realize the Outside was real?  It seems very unlikely that the gods can function the same everywhere else, when we know that Eärwa is the exception.
Realizing damnation exists is hard when supernatural phenomena aren't beating you over the head every day. They had mastered everything when they realized that there was something orthogonal to the real going on. But in the end, as Emilidis made sorcerous artifacts without the mark, they managed to create technology interlinked with the Outside. Again, the fundamental premise of the story is that Gods are real, and as such they can act any way they please. Recall what Bakker says in the quote about the Dreaming God. In anarcane places, the God dreams lucidly, making co-opting his songs hard if not impossible. I.e. God is in some sense more "aware" here and you cannot sing fire out of thin air, but you can get sent to the pit for sure.
To me the No-God's questions seem to be basically the manifestation of it's "hunger" to BE, it's simply functioning as it must in the only way it can due to it's construction/components and it's pre-determined programming.  We know Kelmomas' brain is different from others' which is the reason he is a viable Insertant. The No-God's questions sound like they're from one twin to the other. Without the constant input from the bodily-active/first-person twin's thoughts, the second twin is left baying at the gates so to speak. "Neither of them" can know that they "both" suffer the same fate. To THEM (if such a statement is applicable) I assume it feels like they've been cut-off from one another, this being the cause of the No-God's "hunger", the desire to be whole again... TO BE.

Parentheses because we know they constantly swap; "Kelmomas" as watched/Object, "Samarmus" as watcher/Subject. Now they're at once both, and neither of these things. Zero and One.

I'm sure there was a lot of discussion about it already, but there's clearly something up with the Judging Eye and the No-God. Scenes where TJE opened in the Great Ordeal mention "Sranc squealing in the black" and the like.  Most believable for me is that the Judging Eye only exists due to the No-God existing (and thus it exists/has existed retroactively). Some of you would probably be able to conceptualize it better, but for lack of a better way to share the thought I'll do my best.

TNG collapsing of Kel/Sam certainily ruined the God of God's cycle, it glitched the system and "woke" the God. We know for sure that only women who give birth to still-born children have TJE, but I think that twins are a part of that requirement as well. Because Mimara would have the twins she carries, she has TJE and thus has had/will have it her whole life... maybe not ONLY because one would die, but SPECIFICALLY because of that circumstance in addition to the No-God doing its subject-object collapse. I think, due to souls sharing the same space, that the collapse of Kel and Sam somehow also happens to Mimara's twins... blinding the Judging Eye in the same way that we're blind to how our brains work. Seeing, feeling, understanding how our brains do what they do is not a function of our brains, and I believe here that seeing, feeling, understanding itself is not a function of the God.

What could this mean? Hell, anything. But sounds logical to me that the world being Shut and the lack of new (live) births makes sense if you are willing to entertain the thought that at this time (post-Resumption), the "shared space" that's orthogonal to Bios, has collapsed into ONE place... ALL souls, or at least the remaining/unclaimed Portion were born into Mimara's baby?

Can't forget to include!

The Ark, The Inchoroi, The Progenitors - Okay, I am going to go ahead and jump into the clearly less popular opinion and side with Ajencis, that genius dude who was like "Wait wtf? There's no way they flew to other planets!" due to the identical locations of stars when charted from different corners of the World. "The stars would move relative one another were they not uniformly embedded in a sphere hanging a fixed distance about the Sky."
....Okay, yeah Ajencis might not be aware of Tekne and it's possibilities... but I am far more inclined to trust in him (and his statement about the stars/sky/universe) than the Inchoroi. In Ajencis' Glossary entry in TUC, this line caught my eye in regards to the discussions in this thread: "In fact, he observed that most individuals posses no criteria whatsoever for their beliefs" - which I include here specifically because the Inverse Fire is seemingly ALL the Inchoroi are basing their beliefs on (that and whatever "programming" their Bios was crafted with). The Mutilated claim they "outlived their origins" or some such, but who is to say that they ever knew their origins? They are a creation, that much is obvious... but truly, what reason have we to believe in "Progenitors", or believe that a weapon race like the Inchoroi would A.) Tell the truth if they knew it or B.) KNOW in the first place?

The Inchoroi are doing no more or less than what their Goad(s) call upon them to do - they create the No-God, they wake the God. Who wants to wake the God? The Vision/no-haloes Kellhus! (Which I think is Outside-Kellhus, but could certainly be a lot of other Things.)

The tapestry thingy that was flashing a code of sorts which only WLW/Sorweel (right?) and Kellhus could see/read = I can't help but think Kellhus made the Inverse Fire. 

Got way too much to add as usual and this is more than enough for one post. :P

ETA: There's no real need for "Progenitors" or actual other worlds/Grounds from my perspective. The Inchies are probably deceived. The Nail is where the Ark came from and it could be the Outside as much as it could be a Wormhole, or from Earwa's past/future, I hope we find out!
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« Last post by MSJ on March 19, 2018, 11:42:01 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
I'm going to seriously have to go through your post history and see your 'book reviews' (or whatever we can call you're one line recommendations like this one) and see if I can rule them out or not.

Is be the worse reviewer ever. I would spoil the books. I don't know how to go into it without telling it. Here's a few must read series.

The Unhewn Throne (low magic)
Tower of Babel (low magic}
Traitor Son Cycle (high magic)

In that order. Seriously, TUT is full of mystery and intrigue. I'm on book 3 (the last) and I have no clue how this is gonna go. I have no complaints, from character, plot, prose or any other thing someone might bitch about. Just excellent.
General Misc. / Small derivative game in development
« Last post by Callan S. on March 19, 2018, 11:15:34 pm »
A small game inspired by the SA books. You're hunting S-rank for the bounties. It's certainly not a triple A studio game. A simple combat system of attack, block and strong block or after you've played active for awhile there's an idle option. But I am looking to develop more opponents and levels and then perhaps a greater setting event/story event also derived from the SA books. If people play it'll show it's on the right track and it's worth extending the track. Basically it also works as a medium for advertising the SA books as well.

I'm not quite sure if the tutorial links properly to the main game - if worst comes to worst, you can refresh the game and at the start press 's' to skip the tutorial.

S-rank Skinners
The Unholy Consult / Re: What-if scenario
« Last post by MSJ on March 19, 2018, 11:12:49 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Interestingly enough, I think TGO had a higher chance of succeeding without Kellhus.

Really? Not a chance at all. They would have even made it to Dagliash. Kellhus saved the army by Gnosis pounding his way through Sranc. They would be been done. Not to mention, no Kellhus, they storm Dagliash old fashion style and boom, no more Ordeal. Your kidding yourself...

I've been saying it for a long time, Kellhus is the man in he speaks to. In his little niche in the Outside or wherever. He's still in the game.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10