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41
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« Last post by H on July 11, 2018, 01:28:39 pm »
That's ... kinda sad. Caliban's War just moved down on my to-read list lol.
Currently reading Illium by Dan Simmons. Honestly, after Hyperion, I'm pretty disappointed with how its starting out.

Well, it probably is/was better than the one before it that I can't remember the name of because I am old.  It's just that it is the same general formula, written out a different way.

Also, I recall reading a fair bit of evidence that Dan Simmons lost his mind at some point after Hyperion, some time around 9/11.
42
General Misc. / Re: A celebration for the clever
« Last post by SmilerLoki on July 11, 2018, 01:26:57 pm »
But that "forcing of a frame" isn't a form of "conditioning?"  At least in the sense of our "default" method of perceiving?

To use one of Bakker's favorite says, in a way, and put simply, if we view everything from a hammer's perspective, we will be apt to see far more nails than screws perhaps?
It's more of an obvious cognitive mistake than conditioning, the way I see it. Just using a wrong model out of habit. Like when I first start speaking English after speaking Russian for a while, I would have a horrible accent, which will mostly fade away given a few minutes. What happens there is me trying to pronounce English words using muscular routines developed for Russian ones, because I had just been speaking Russian before. And then I hear myself speak, realize that I'm doing it wrong, and correct my behavior.

It's even more complex than that, actually. I specifically developed other routines for speaking because my Russian ones weren't producing results in regards to speaking English. The point being, when you use an inappropriate frame of reference for something, it instantly negatively impacts your performance.
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General Misc. / Re: A celebration for the clever
« Last post by H on July 11, 2018, 01:07:23 pm »
This necessity forces aforementioned frames of references on the mind, certainly, but saying it conditions the mind is going a bit too far, in my opinion. It doesn't displace other ways of understanding the world, or no new frames of reference or paradigms would've surfaced.

But that "forcing of a frame" isn't a form of "conditioning?"  At least in the sense of our "default" method of perceiving?

To use one of Bakker's favorite says, in a way, and put simply, if we view everything from a hammer's perspective, we will be apt to see far more nails than screws perhaps?
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General Misc. / Re: A celebration for the clever
« Last post by SmilerLoki on July 11, 2018, 12:52:25 pm »
So, the 100?  And so then further, Yatwer as a Principle?
Does seem like it indeed. And in a way that would Earwa a simulacrum of consciousness without sacrificing realism and complexity.

But the problem is, real-world implications are much more moot. It it very hard to determine the effects of methodology and necessary learning on the mind. Right now we have things that are explained using specific frames of reference (be it Newtonian formalism in physics, computational logic paradigm used in computer science, etc.), and you need to understand those things to navigate any modern society. This necessity forces aforementioned frames of references on the mind, certainly, but saying it conditions the mind is going a bit too far, in my opinion. It doesn't displace other ways of understanding the world, or no new frames of reference or paradigms would've surfaced.

It's very hard to say whether our acquired method of interacting with the world really changed us, and if it did, then to what extent.
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Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« Last post by Wilshire on July 11, 2018, 12:33:48 pm »
So, I actually managed to finish Persepolis Rising.  It was OK, just another installment in the series really...

That's ... kinda sad. Caliban's War just moved down on my to-read list lol.
Currently reading Illium by Dan Simmons. Honestly, after Hyperion, I'm pretty disappointed with how its starting out.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: Subject and Object Ruminations
« Last post by H on July 11, 2018, 10:08:41 am »
Yes; operator = ZG and operand = perspective.

So then, the Zero God is the Subject and Object merged, the No-God, the Subject and Object as a sort of disjunctive union?
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The Unholy Consult / Re: Subject and Object Ruminations
« Last post by profgrape on July 10, 2018, 11:09:45 pm »
Quote
Not a measure but an operator.  Transforming all frames to zero.

Well, from the non-mathmatical aspect, a frame is the perspective.

Quote
I've fallen into the classic trap of thinking of matrices (frames) as things rather than operators!  Frames are operators on what, though -- observable phenomena? Existence? What is the operand?

If Frames, then, are the perspective, then they operate on perception.  Even more to the point though, they operative on the subjective valuation of perceiving (i.e. consciousness?).  So, the Cubit, is the ultimate Frame, because it is the perception of the thing, from the thing, because all things are one thing, no thing, the Zero thing.  There is no distance, Subject and Object are the same.
Yes; operator = ZG and operand = perspective.
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The Almanac: PON Edition / Re: ARC: TDTCB Chapter 14
« Last post by TheCulminatingApe on July 10, 2018, 09:00:13 pm »
This Chapter is entirely from Serwe's POV, which I think is the only time in the whole series that this occurs, and therefore is probably of some significance.

Quote
Never has she known such a man.  A man who knew her, and yet still loved.
Quote
Kellhus loves me.  He's the first to love me
  This is of course not true.  Kellhus doesn't love her.

Serwe has compassion.  She tries to warn the boy, but both Cnaiur and Kellhus go after him, and kill him. 

Quote
The whelp warned no one, girl.  What mere boy could escape a Dunyain.
  Certainly not Cnaiur, as we know.

Serwe believes she has forced Kellhus to kill the boy. 
Quote
My first sin against you father

She is pregnant and thinks it is Kellhus'.  It is pretty obvious that it is in fact Cnaiur's.  The implication is therefore that Serwe is not altogether sane, which is reinforced when she sees haloes around Kellhus' hands.

She runs away.  Two Kidruhil try to rape her.  Cnaiur turns up and kills one of them.  She kills the other one, and is marked with a swazond by Cnaiur for her trouble. 
Quote
He exists only here, a scar upon your arm.  It is the mark of his absence, of all the ways his soul will not move, and of all the acts he will not commit.  A mark of the weight you now bear.

She doesn't understand. 
Quote
You are my prize, Serwe.  My tribe.
  No quote sure what to make of this.

We see why Cnaiur has been kept alive.  His understanding of the Kidruhil, and the Nansur lands is invaluable.  But it is clear that Kellhus is in charge.

Serwe's horse dies.  Cnaiur want to leave her, but Kellhus will not.  They are cornered by the Kidruhil, but inexplicably run into the Conriyans instead.

Quote
I am the promise...  Our promise.  Our God
Quote
What was impossible was that a God might walk now, that a God might fall in love with her...

I think Serwe can be read as a stand in for the worldborn in general, given what follows.  Kellhus can 'see' all her perceived inadequacies, but 'loves' her nonetheless - perhaps in a way that no one else ever has.  It is no great leap to perceive him as divine, especially given his physical prowess (and subsequent sorcerous power).  There is also a contrast with Mimara, who can actually see and forgive with the judging eye - self-interest vs altruism.  Earlier Chapters show Akka as an altruist and the imperials as self-interested.

Why does Kellhus not leave Serwe behind.  Does he keep her to goad Cnaiur?  or for some other reason.  Why does Serwe see haloes.  Is there something deeper going on?

End of Part 4.  All the various plot strands and character arcs are about to come together...
49
The Unholy Consult / Re: Subject and Object Ruminations
« Last post by H on July 10, 2018, 08:44:42 pm »
Quote
Not a measure but an operator.  Transforming all frames to zero.

Well, from the non-mathmatical aspect, a frame is the perspective.

Quote
I've fallen into the classic trap of thinking of matrices (frames) as things rather than operators!  Frames are operators on what, though -- observable phenomena? Existence? What is the operand?

If Frames, then, are the perspective, then they operate on perception.  Even more to the point though, they operative on the subjective valuation of perceiving (i.e. consciousness?).  So, the Cubit, is the ultimate Frame, because it is the perception of the thing, from the thing, because all things are one thing, no thing, the Zero thing.  There is no distance, Subject and Object are the same.
50
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2018
« Last post by H on July 10, 2018, 08:06:15 pm »
So, I actually managed to finish Persepolis Rising.  It was OK, just another installment in the series really...
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