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91
General Earwa / Re: The Consult's Plans [TUC Spoilers}
« Last post by Wilshire on January 30, 2020, 04:26:45 pm »
Quote
"And though Golgotterath had long scoffed at the Mandate and their prattle regarding the Celmomian Prophesy, how could they afford to take chances?  They were so near! So close! Soon the Children would gather, and they would rain ruin upon this despicable world! The End of Ends was coming..."
WP chapter 21, the synthese is flying over the sack of Caraskand. 

This does not sound like a plan to resurrect the No-God, knowing how the No-God is eventually resurrected.
...
Reading it this time around, this part almost sounds like the Inchoroi gave up on the No-God to seal the world plan, and have called on Inchoroi from the depths of space to come and blast the world away.
"The Children" is a really strange turn of phrase. I'm not sure we see that again from a Consult POV, and unfortunately it could mean a great many things. It could be self referential, as the Inchoroi are the children of the progenitors, or it could be the weapons races which they may actually refer to as 'their children' from time to time.

I'm leaning toward the latter... But it still is strange. It does make it sound like they planning an attack of some kind without the No God, given the phrasing.

Also note that at this time the Ishual should still be undiscovered. I think the raid on Ishual and the subsequen capture of the Dunyain had to be sometime after WP (given the WP epilogue) but probably before TJE.

And considering that they used an Anasurimbor the first time, shouldn't the Consult be pretty clear on what Kellhus showing up means?
The Inchoroi don't actually know why the No-God woke up. So actually they don't necessarily care about the Anasurimbor. As a reminder, the prophesy itself only says that "an anasurimbor will return at the end of the world" not that the Anasurimbor themselves do anything in particular. They just show up.

As a partial aside, I think the flippancy this regards the Celmomian Prophesy is interesting. Later on in TJE or WLW there is another line from a synthese "we must uphold all prophesies, even those that are false", which seems to revere whatever unnamed prophesy that refers to. Could be the tonal change is a sly indication that the Dunyain have taken over the Consult and have changed certain priorities.

And lastly, welcome to the forum.
92
General Earwa / The Consult's Plans [TUC Spoilers}
« Last post by The P on January 30, 2020, 03:33:54 pm »
In WP chapter 21, the synthese is flying over the sack of Caraskand.  "And though Golgotterath had long scoffed at the Mandate and their prattle regarding the Celmomian Prophesy, how could they afford to take chances?  They were so near! So close! Soon the Children would gather, and they would rain ruin upon this despicable world! The End of Ends was coming..."

This does not sound like a plan to resurrect the No-God, knowing how the No-God is eventually resurrected.  And considering that they used an Anasurimbor the first time, shouldn't the Consult be pretty clear on what Kellhus showing up means?

Reading it this time around, this part almost sounds like the Inchoroi gave up on the No-God to seal the world plan, and have called on Inchoroi from the depths of space to come and blast the world away.
93
General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« Last post by H on January 30, 2020, 01:35:44 pm »
Quote
We don’t see the instantaneous locations of objects and infer movement. We see movement. The movement is part of the immediate uninferred contents of our perceptions. To have an experience that represents an object as in motion, the content of the experience must have temporal breadth; it must span a temporal interval. To see the force of this remark, we distinguish a changing representation from a representation of change. The first requires two experiences with different contents. The second requires a single experience whose content spans that of a pair of instantaneous experiences and compares them with one another. A movie screen that displays a different image at different moments doesn’t represent change. The image on the screen at any given moment only displays an instantaneous state of the environment. Representing change requires having contents that span a finite interval and compare experiences at different moments. The fact that change is something that we see directly—that is, that change is represented in the immediate uninferred contents of sensory experience—means that synthesis is integrating over time, not just across modalities. Concepts of space and time are constructed together by the mind as part of a unitary framework in which we and the objects of sensory attention are simultaneously located and related to one another. The concepts of things as objects of perception and one’s self as subject of experience are stabilized out of regularities over an extended stream of experiences, and they embody presumptions about the way things hang together over time.
Jeanne Ismael - How Physics Makes Us Free

A pretty good description of the Kantian perspective on how/why space and time are something like a priori categories of mind, and so the (sort of) "beginning" of Transcendental Idealism.
94
General Misc. / Re: Quotes
« Last post by H on January 30, 2020, 03:16:56 am »
Quote
  In one of the Agatha Christie stories, Hercule Poirot discovers that an ugly nurse is the same person as the beautiful woman he had previously met on a trans-Atlantic voyage, she has merely disguised herself to hide her natural beauty. Hastings, Poirot's Watson-like companion, remarks sadly that if a beauty can make herself appear ugly, then the same can also be done vice versa. What then remains in man's infatuation beyond deception? Does this insight into the unreliability of the beautiful woman not Signal the end oflove? "No, my friend;' replies Poirot, "it announces the beginning of wisdom:' In other words, such skepticism, such awareness of the deceptive nature of feminine beauty, misses the point, which is that feminine beauty is nonetheless absolute, an absolute which appears: no matter how fr agile and deceptive it may be at the level of substantial reality, what transpires in/through the moment of Beauty is an Absolute-there is more truth in the appearance than in what may be hidden beneath it. Therein resides Plato's deep insight: Ideas are not the hidden reality beneath appearances (Plato was well aware that this hidden reality is that of ever-changing corrupting and corrupted matter); Ideas are nothing but the very form of appearance, this form as such- - or, as Lacan succinctly rendered Plato's point, the supra-sensible is appearance as appearance. For this reason, neither Plato nor Christianity are forms of Wisdom-they are both anti-Wisdom embodied.
Slavoj Žižek - Less Than Nothing
95
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« Last post by H on January 29, 2020, 04:07:46 pm »
At what point did we discover that Oblivion is an option,
There's some hints early on, but its not until TAE, maybe Ishterebinth that the idea gets any real credit. Even still, since the Nonmen continue living, its still a pretty dubious claim.

Yeah, it is only in TAE we gets hints of it via Cleric (I think) and it is only more explicitly laid out in Chapter 12 of TGO.

that the Hundred and the Solitary God alike can bestow redemption,
Never. We dont even know the Solitary God is real, and the Hundred are never mentioned as giving redemption like when Mimara forgives via TJE. The Hundred claim dead souls, not redeem them.
Right, there is no "confirmation, per se, of redemption at all.  To me, the "closest" we see is what happens to Sorweel, but even that is ambiguous to some degree.

I hadn't realized in my reading that there was much solid evidence that the Inverse Fire is just a tool of control,
I wouldn't call it 'solid' ;)
I'd actually object to the word "just."  I don't think it is just an tool of control, it's practical application, as we see it, is a tool of control though.  What is it actually?  What is it "really" showing someone?  That is a whole other can of worms.

The "fact" of damnation is well and "open" though, but I don't, personally, believe the Inverse Fire lies at all.
96
General Misc. / Re: Video Game Thread! What are you playing?
« Last post by Wilshire on January 29, 2020, 02:41:26 pm »
Gemcraft Frostborn Wrath just came out. Its like installment 5 of the series, is a glorified browser Tower Defense game, but i've been playing its various iterations for 10+ years and I find the very amusing.

Slay the Spire - rogue-like/lite, turn based deck building game.

Oxygen Not Included - survival/colony management game, 2d, from the creators of Don't Starve Together. You get a little colony, try to keep your couple of folks alive and direct them to building a space ship. Oxygen, Food, Heat, material management, etc.

Tried Sniper Elite 4 since it was super on sale and I've been eyeing it for some time. Gameplay loop gets boring. Its either too much hand holding, or too much effort, depending on difficulty level, with not a middle ground that I'm satisfied with. Fun to sneak around and headshot folks from across the map though. Good for when you're in that kind of mood lol

Disgaea 5. Chibi dungeon crawler. I was hoping for a decent SRPG but its mostly about manipulating character stats rather than some kind of strategy. Which, to be fair, most SRPGs are that way but usually they hide it better. I gather that this is by design, and what the franchise is known for so... They delivered? I just didn't find it that entertaining.
97
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« Last post by Wilshire on January 29, 2020, 02:34:40 pm »
At what point did we discover that Oblivion is an option,
There's some hints early on, but its not until TAE, maybe Ishterebinth that the idea gets any real credit. Even still, since the Nonmen continue living, its still a pretty dubious claim.

that the Hundred and the Solitary God alike can bestow redemption,
Never. We dont even know the Solitary God is real, and the Hundred are never mentioned as giving redemption like when Mimara forgives via TJE. The Hundred claim dead souls, not redeem them.

and that you can level up your soul?
Unclear. Ironsoul, Cnaiur, and Kellhus, maybe Serwe, have some mentions of looking like ciphrang either through TJE or in Kellhus' case the IF. But we don't know if that is just a metaphor rather than literal, if they did something specific to 'earn' that designation, or if they weren't just "always" that way.

TJE also describes Akka and all schoolmen as similarly blasted and terrifying, in a way that is reminisant of the above examples (IIRC). So it also could be there's plenty of Ciphrang, but equally likely that its all metaphorical.

I hadn't realized in my reading that there was much solid evidence that the Inverse Fire is just a tool of control,
I wouldn't call it 'solid' ;)

I thought there might be subtle indications that it could be but that the text presents it as a factual vision of damnation.
This is the overt direction the books point us in. Just like how TJE is assumed to show objective reality.
Unfortunately we never get a look at something that is seen both through IF and TJE, so we can't really determine which is true, if either, nor see if the visions differ in some meaningful way.
98
The Unholy Consult / Re: Why would the Inchoroi fear damnation?
« Last post by Odium on January 29, 2020, 12:33:10 pm »
At what point did we discover that Oblivion is an option, that the Hundred and the Solitary God alike can bestow redemption, and that you can level up your soul? I recall hints about these things but not confirmation. I hadn't realized in my reading that there was much solid evidence that the Inverse Fire is just a tool of control, I thought there might be subtle indications that it could be but that the text presents it as a factual vision of damnation.
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General Misc. / Re: Video Game Thread! What are you playing?
« Last post by mostly.harmless on January 28, 2020, 09:39:12 pm »
Death Stranding. It makes no sense that I'm addicted to what is basically a walking/delivery simulator, but I'm fucking hooked.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

100
General Misc. / Re: Video Game Thread! What are you playing?
« Last post by sciborg2 on January 28, 2020, 08:17:47 pm »
Unavowed: Great little point-click adventure game. Your character is a bit different than the usual - you were possessed and murdered a LOT of people. After the demon is exorcised the Unavowed offer you cover from being arrested in return for your services.

Unworthy: 2-D Dark Souls, very basic graphics. Boss battles are fun, currently fighting the Heir of Ambition aka a fucking archer bastard who was murking me on the daily until I put the game to the side to take a break.

Have a bunch more, I usually grab a lot of pixel art games on sale...
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