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Messages - Ciogli

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Odium I think it is because the Consult does not truly control the sranc except in proximity, think of the sranc on the plain chasing the skin eaters, they were bent on taking the skin eaters and only the intervention of the skinspy stopped them. And even then only the scent stayed their hand for a little while and the skinspy had to kill the leader, like a wolf taking out the alpha to become the new alpha. They did not know of the Consult, it was not even a myth to them. The brilliance of the sranc design has also made them uncontrollable except with the No-God, they multiply so fast and over so vast an area that they cannot be controlled. They are like ants, if left unchecked they will dominate the landscape, the Meorish peoples who became the middle-north believe themselves better because they battles the sranc clans for a millennia on the long side. Even now they battle them, in the judging eye it was said that some clans became scalpoi in an almost religious cause. They and the sclvendi have been a bulwark against the sranc coming into the three seas.

SJ on question 3 I think it was simply them looking for long enough, if the child remembers going into the underground and coming out, then this happened in the 5 or so years. At the end of the warrior prophet they began to look and in the thousandfold thought Cnaiur the Consult Ishual is in the mountains, then it took maybe 15 years of searching for them to find it.

Will the identity of child be revealed? He could be a cousin or even grandchild of Kellhus, I think he is being overlooked because of the awesomeness of Koringhus.

I wonder why Koringhus is the survivor? Was he the only fully trained Dunyain, and the child is not considered a full Dunyain sort of like a padawan.

On the question of Koringhus it is said that the Dunyain push each generation to the very limits of their ability and that is why they progress, if Kellhus was the greatest Dunyain ever in terms of skills and his son is considered the closest to the Absolute then maybe Koringhus is superior to Kellhus. But where can this merry band go? I doubt to Isheteribinth and the three seas is to far, so the great ordeal would seem the only option.

Well it seems that my speculation that some Dunyain survived was correct, and my further speculation that Akka would be forced to teach Dunyain children might also be correct. I wonder why the two did not leave Ishual, maybe the sranc were to numerous nearby. Koringhus would atleast be in his mid twenties and the child is old to come along. I can see them trying to find the Great Ordeal, bringing along the son of Kellhuss, if Kellhuss was a prodigy even for the Dunyain and his son is the closest to the Absolute, then maybe Koringhus is the one the Celmommian Prophecy spoke of. That would be an awesome conversation between the two of them. I get the feeling that Kellhuss does not plan to survive this and if their is another time jump then we may have just met humanity's true saviors.

General Earwa / Re: TGO's new cover
« on: May 01, 2016, 07:26:45 pm »
H\P I just wanted to say that I have always loved and respected you more than any poster. And as your most faithful acolyte, will most humbly accept any present that you have to give me. We can both share in your bounty.

General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: April 05, 2016, 06:44:45 pm »
Just finished a reread of the white luck warrior, and Somnambulist have you tried to do a picture of the disaster at Irsulor. I am still trying to imagine the size of the horde trapped at the Irshi. Miles upon miles of sranc with sorcerers walking the low sky, with the army of the South in the background.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The final 100
« on: March 29, 2016, 06:21:39 pm »
That's called cheating Bolivar, you have to sit around and wait like the rest of us. Only heretics would read it at midnight, we would have to scourge you in the old way.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The final 100
« on: March 28, 2016, 07:36:52 pm »
I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, I already ordered the book and I am debating whether to pay for 1 day delivery or the standard shipping. The one day nearly doubles the price, but I am not sure I can wait the week until delivery.

The White-Luck Warrior / The final 100
« on: March 27, 2016, 05:59:18 pm »
It is now 100 days until the release of The Great Ordeal, we must remember that answers are like opiates and sober men find solace in mystery. Are long journey is nearly over and the Coffers await us all.

General Earwa / Re: TSACast (SA Podcast)
« on: March 13, 2016, 05:47:55 pm »
I always thought that Sanna Jephera and Nanor ukkerja were the same person, but their is a four hundred year difference between them. Twoheart lived for 207 years and the founder of Kuniuri lived for 178, the Nonmen blood seemed to last. In the appendices there is a Dunyain pragma called Meigon who I think is near 200. So the heritage is still strong in the bloodline of the Dunyain.

General Earwa / Re: TSACast (SA Podcast)
« on: January 30, 2016, 07:05:13 pm »
Great cast, I you going to one on each book? You can even do one on the appendices and the Atrocity Tales.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: December 16, 2014, 04:03:05 am »
to make them more like Tolkien's elves

... and now I can't help but compare dunyain & mangaecca with numenorians.

I think the Numenorians and the Nonmen are a better analog.

General Earwa / Re: Cishaurim
« on: September 09, 2014, 05:04:38 pm »
I think she has a type of Autism, another defective only fit for the unmasking room in Ishual, if girls are allowed there. At the rate Kellhus is putting out defectives the majority of Ishual must be defectives, unless it is simply the inbreeding that makes fertility so difficult with the worldborn. The majority vast majority of babies born in Ishual must die before procreating, much like in the wild where ninety percent mortality rates are common. But I'm starting to suspect maybe the Dunyain are a matriarchy of some type, we have only seen two elder Dunyain throughout the series.

General Earwa / Re: Fanayal in PoN
« on: September 09, 2014, 04:51:53 pm »
I don't know how important Fanayal really is, he seems like a character that is their to bring Meppa and Malowebi to the audience. He is not a viewpoint like Malowebi and Psatma, so he is seen only from a narrative distance to the reader. He will be eclipsed in TUC by the other pair.

General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: September 07, 2014, 08:35:23 pm »
A thing that struck me about God Emperor was the ghola of Duncan Idaho, his constant whining throughout the book really annoyed me. By the end I really couldn't stand him as a character, and the main reason he helped Siona assassinate Leto, and on his wedding day no less was not for some high minded purpose like freedom or other, but because Hwi Noree would not leave Leto for him. And then to top it off he savagely kills Nayla for following his orders when it led to Hwi's death, because he did not know that Hwi was in the royal cart with Leto. This sounds suspiciously like a character from Earwa, Achamian leaves the service of Kellhus and becomes a hermit for two decades because he lost Esmenet. And Kellhus says that he will kneel before him at the end, if Akka actually succeeds in getting to Kellhus there might be a confrontation. 

General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: August 26, 2014, 12:34:04 am »
 After reading this thread I was inspired to reread the Dune series, they were always my favorite books growing up. I had not rea them since I started with the second apocalypse books although I recognized the influence when reading them, the homages are deeper and more numerous than I imagined.
Kellhus is mainly inspired by Leto II who has come to complete the work started by his father, where Paul turned away from the Golden Path because he could not bare the cost of being subdivided into the worms in an endless dream while Kellhus theorized that Moenghus will turn away from The Thousandfold Thought when he learns of his own damnation. Although this is fluid thing as in the triumvirate of Paul, Chani, and Irulan, with that of Kellhus, Esmenet, and Serwe. Esmenet seems to Chani the dark haired true wife of the prophets heart while his blonde haired public wife Serwe who is the daughter of a chief. The Anasurimbor are the new Atreides, that family that holds the destiny of humanity in its hands. Esmenet is in a similar situation as that of Alia, the regent of a toppling empire trying to hold it together from internal rebellion after the Prophet who created the empire departs, and in her distress she begins to listen to the counsel of a family member. In Dune it is Alia’s maternal grandfather Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, while in Esmenet’s case it is her son Kelmommas. Kelmommas is interesting because he is the possessor and the possessed, the voice that leads Esmenet to ruin and the one who is haunted by an internal monologue that leads him in his madness. He was born staring into the eyes of his twin like the birth of Leto and Ghanima where they looked at each other in the womb. In the case of Kellhus he controls the Legion within himself, like Leto controls the legions of inner lives of his ancestors.  And the Circumfixion of Kellhus where he first grasps the TTT is similar to the introduced spice agony of Leto where he chooses the Golden Path. And in Shulloch where Leto takes on the sand trout skin and establishes the Golden Path, whereas in the abandoned mansion of Kyudea where Kellhus speaks to Moenghus and solidifies TTT. But unlike Leto who we have a viewpoint from in the books and can empathize with his ultimate designs, Kellhus gradually loses his viewpoint and becomes opaque as he grows in power and occludes his designs. Both Paul and Moenghus speak of the sleeping God, while the Divided God that was one is similar to the God shattered into a million slivers. I think Serwa is like Ghanima, could she give birth to a future royal line.
The similarities that struck me most were those of Stillgar and Duncan Idaho both helped the ascent of Paul Atreides. In Earwa Proyas brings to mind Stillgar, the old stalwart who is the first to discover Kellhus and helps in his ascent to Godhood, and then is the person entrusted with secret knowledge that is to help in a future without his living God. And Meppa who seems to be a riff on Hayt the ghola of Duncan Idaho. Both do not know their past identity, and is the confidant of a king, and while the ghola has metal Tleilaxu eyes that give him greater vision, Meppa has a silver shield over his missing eyes. The Bene Gesserit seems to be broken into two pieces, one is the Dunyain and the other seems to be the Mandate. There is a quote where someone says “the Bene Gesserit want what they always want, for the universe to leave them alone” which it is the same goal of the Dunyain. That along with all of the obvious physical and mental capabilities of a Reverend Mother. While the Mandate has the other memory in the form of Seswatha’s homunculus inside, giving them access to things coveted by their rivals. The Bene Gesserit call the Honored Matres the whores just as the Mandate call the Scarlett Spire the whores. Melange seems to be the Gnosis; the Honored Matres want the abilities that the spice agony gives new Reverend Mothers, while the Scarlett Spires want the Gnosis.
Farradan the grandson of Shaddam has similarities to two characters, one Fanayal the son of a deposed monarch trying to restore his line to the throne, and Sorweel who is an enemy of the Anasurimbor and yet can’t help to be seduced by them. Yet Sorweel seems also to be partly based upon Siona, who could disappear from the prescience of Leto who is like Sorweel who can disappear from the sight of Kellhus and his children. The relationship of Xerius and Conphas seems to be inspired by Baron Vladimir and Feyd Rautha, the young heir who wants kill the monarch to take their place yet who has a relationship of familial ambition.   
And now for some other random observations, there is a part where Sheena and Odrade ride a sandworm into the desert, and Odrade thinks about the place where the God-Emperor fell to his death and muses that many people died there but the death of Leto marked this place. This brings to mind the death of the No-God and of the topoi in general. There is a place in Dune Messiah where the Fremen women of the southern sietch in reaction to Alia, in which they use the quote about witches which is very similar to the quote about whores. While reading a book about alchemy I came across the name of Abraham Eleazar the Jew, a mythical priest who brought the secrets of alchemy Nicholas Flamel, very similar to Eleazareas the grandmaster of the Scarlett Spires. In one conversation Leto states that prophecy creates events to bring itself about. In Dune Messiah at the beginning of the book, Bronso of Ix has written a book about Paul Atreides that has been banned as heretical much like the book of Achamian. And finally the Golden Lion Throne of Shaddam, which brings to mind the Golden Throne Room of Sil in the Ark.     

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