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General Misc. / Re: Bakker's Ebay account
« Last post by themerchant on April 20, 2019, 06:46:16 pm »
I'd buy a Chorae on a chain.
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I think Akka knew no one would care what he said about anything - the condemnation would have no effect - but sometimes you just have to let it out. I surmise he was part of the TTT, otherwise Kellhus would've dispatched of him ... or feelings, perhaps? Remnants of camaraderie? Owed him one for the Gnosis? Kellhus likely calculated Akka would hide, so likely no risk of him upending his empire, but maybe useful in the future ... being the real prophet the people needed.

Nice find, Beard - thanks for sharing. I think R will include this in the next history/glossary.
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Is it just me or does Scott's tone seem different in this? Like he wrote this with the Wire playing in the background.
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General Misc. / Re: Bakker's Ebay account
« Last post by Dora Vee on April 20, 2019, 01:39:59 pm »
Noo...it's so expensive. :(
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General Misc. / Re: Bakker's Ebay account
« Last post by Francis Buck on April 20, 2019, 07:47:53 am »
Someone should make some Sranc meat candy, and Chorae key chains, and also Pez dispensers of the main cast. The merchandising possibilities are endless!
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* * * * FRAGMENT THE SECOND * * * *

"Hey, Proyas! You made it! Way to go! Folks, I tutored this idiot, and, hey, a teacher can only work with the material that he's given, correctamundo? Whoa, whoa, there, Proyas! Calm down. Don't think that I won't give you a seriously sorcerously painful beatdown for reasons of nostalgia and auld lang syne. That's better.

Hey, I don't see the Scylvendi anywhere! Good fucking riddance. Nasty piece of work. But, hey, without him we don't get Mr. Big. Kellhus! Felicitations on your promotion to.....what are you? What was that? Asshole-Prober? What the fuck? What did he say? Ass Getting Poorer? What? Oh, pardonnez-moi, Aspect-Emperor. Oh, that's very classy. <shrugs, then sotto voce> (Fucking meaningless bullshit, but hey, whatever...) <aloud> You're looking good. Nice halo. Chicks dig the halo. No, much better than you looked way back when the Scylvendi dragged you into Momemn. Rags to riches. Fucking rags to fucking riches. You bastard. You utter bastardly piece of bastardly crap. You are a fucking thief. Folks, watch out. By the time this Dunyain prick is finished, you not only won't have pots to piss in, you fucking won't have dicks to piss with! Oh, hey, the Dunyain prick is giving me Look Number 53. The understanding, disappointed look. Oh, do I sadden you, Kellhus! Do I not measure up to your lofty standards? Kindly go fuck yourself. In fact, Mr. Asshole-Emperor, the whole purpose of my visit to this shitshow of a celebration is to tell you exactly that. Fuck you. Oh, and good luck with that whore-of-a-wife over there, Esmenet! Hi, sweetheart! Miss me? Fuck you, too. You two were made for each other. King Thief and Queen Whore. Bow down, people! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss! Tell me, folks, which is worse, a conniving idiot like Xerius or a really smart conniving sonofabitch like Kellhus? I'll pose that as my final question for this extinguished dissembly. Good fucking day to all you fucking clowns. Sleep tight, don't let the skin-spies bite. Yippie-ki-yay, motherfuckers. That's fucking right, step the fuck away from me.....whoa! WHOA! The Kellhus Voice! Yes, I sure fucking heard that! "The next time you come before me, Drusas Achamian, you will kneel!" Is that so, chief? Well, pal, I don't swing that way. But Esmi's pretty good at that particular practice, if you make it worth her while. You're going to have to lay waste to many kingdoms to keep her in the style she prefers. Anything else for me? No? Good? I'll show myself out.

[end of fragment]
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Philosophy & Science / Re: The ancient philosophers and "anagogic power"?
« Last post by sciborg2 on April 20, 2019, 03:36:07 am »
So to me it sounds like:
Final Cause says Future Events that have not yet happened actually cause Present/Past Events.

Which to me is basically pure Fate, without freewill. You can't change events because they are set in stone by the final outcome.

I don't think that's how Earwa works, but some combination of Efficient and Final Cause. (this ignoring the fact of course that its a book, and Bakker is the final cause lol).

Oh I agree it's some kind of combination. The characters can eat, shit, fuck as they please and [so on] as the Bios allows so long as the decisions concerning the No God's resurrection come to pass.

Well, doesn't Final Cause essentially supersede?

In fact, is this not what a "narrative" essentially is?  (Maybe?)

Yeah I think so...Bakker always said the World conspires and is a character. Some ancient Greeks - IIRC following Aristotle - thought of final causes as inherent to the nature of entities/objects in the world. That is, in a micro-sense, the Final Cause of all things determining their Material, Formal, and Efficient Causes of the animals/objects/persons.

In a macro-sense it could be that the Final Cause of Earwa is the "salvation history" of the Bakkerverse, that just as the World sets the ends of all within its embrace God set a Final Cause for the World itself. Aristotle, IIRC, thought of the Prime Mover as the Perfection/Good to which all mortal things moved toward. So then in turn the Final Cause of Earwa is the axis on which the rest of the Inside (at the least) may turn.

Realization of Earwa-as-Axis-Mundi may be how the Progenitors of the Inchoroi ended up finding Earwa. It might be possible to use machine learning or some other pattern recognition process to fill in the missing causal vector. You cannot trace final causes in the usual scientific way of determining interest-relative causation. or so I suspect, but you can potentially map the influence of Final Causes and then subsequently use that as the basis of the compass to find the Promised Land...or maybe that's all BS...

I don't know if Bakker thought of all this in quite these terms, but I do suspect he went back to the Ancient Greeks and at the least the European Idealists for his metaphysics.
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Philosophy & Science / Re: Another galaxy without dark matter
« Last post by TaoHorror on April 18, 2019, 11:15:48 pm »
Recall, Newtonian equations seemed to explain gravitation, until we realized they didn't really, only from one inertial perspective.  So, something akin to that might be the case here.  We figure that the "seemingly missing" force must be from "something" and so infer that this something is Dark Matter/Energy.  It could be the case that we simply are not "using the right perspective" or that our method of calculation is just missing something.

Yeah, when I first learned a bit about this dark stuff and then heard about a galaxy with none of it - I was like, well that galaxy looks just fine ( could be it's not ), so this dark stuff ain't necessary - or it could be like you say, since we think something is there we know nothing about, could be it's not there and we're not understanding something that can explain our results/readings.
Actually, it's the opposite. The fact that you can find galaxies that behave as if there's no dark matter strengthens the conclusion that there IS something dark and heavy and at the same time demolishes alternate theories (for how would these galaxies without dark matter behave as they do in that case?).

Forgive me, I'm out of my depth here - you're right, it's their spin that's off that alerts us to a lack of dark matter, not something measured.
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Philosophy & Science / Re: Another galaxy without dark matter
« Last post by TLEILAXU on April 18, 2019, 09:38:56 pm »
Recall, Newtonian equations seemed to explain gravitation, until we realized they didn't really, only from one inertial perspective.  So, something akin to that might be the case here.  We figure that the "seemingly missing" force must be from "something" and so infer that this something is Dark Matter/Energy.  It could be the case that we simply are not "using the right perspective" or that our method of calculation is just missing something.

Yeah, when I first learned a bit about this dark stuff and then heard about a galaxy with none of it - I was like, well that galaxy looks just fine ( could be it's not ), so this dark stuff ain't necessary - or it could be like you say, since we think something is there we know nothing about, could be it's not there and we're not understanding something that can explain our results/readings.
Actually, it's the opposite. The fact that you can find galaxies that behave as if there's no dark matter strengthens the conclusion that there IS something dark and heavy and at the same time demolishes alternate theories (for how would these galaxies without dark matter behave as they do in that case?).
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Philosophy & Science / Re: Another galaxy without dark matter
« Last post by TaoHorror on April 18, 2019, 09:01:27 pm »
Recall, Newtonian equations seemed to explain gravitation, until we realized they didn't really, only from one inertial perspective.  So, something akin to that might be the case here.  We figure that the "seemingly missing" force must be from "something" and so infer that this something is Dark Matter/Energy.  It could be the case that we simply are not "using the right perspective" or that our method of calculation is just missing something.

Yeah, when I first learned a bit about this dark stuff and then heard about a galaxy with none of it - I was like, well that galaxy looks just fine ( could be it's not ), so this dark stuff ain't necessary - or it could be like you say, since we think something is there we know nothing about, could be it's not there and we're not understanding something that can explain our results/readings.
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