(TGO Spoilers) Son of the Survivor

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Ciogli

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« on: July 22, 2016, 05:54:04 am »
I think it is highly suspicious that of the four that left Ishual only the child is left nameless, all that time and no one even mentions his name. I think this will be a big reveal in the TUC, Kellhus was a prodigy among the Dunyain and Koringhus was also a prodigy. The boy was defective only because of his emotions not because of his innate gifts. If the pattern holds he could be even greater than his father and grandfather, but not as emotionally stunted. If their is a time jump between TUC and the series that shall not be named, he could be the new Kellhus. His talents were blunted because his father could not properly teach him in the ruins of Ishual.

Because he is Dunyain he knows the goal of Mimara and Achamian, and he would continue to move north to intercept them if they were to escape. The world is strange to him and along with his talks with his father he would seek to find them. He would probably shadow the Scylvendi to find the duo, and because they are on foot the Scylvendi would quickly leave them behind and he could make contact.

It is Achamians nature to teach and on their journey he would teach him as he taught his grandfather, if they reach the Ordeal then he might even fall under the guidance of Kellhus. With Serwa they could have a family reunion, although the time seems to be short. It might be the true reason that Bakker came up with the Achamian break with Kellhus and his journey to Ishual was so he could pick up the boy and bring him into the story proper. Or at least a major reason, along with the twins that Mimara will bare, the new protagonists of the next series.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 05:59:19 am by Ciogli »
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2016, 04:19:45 pm »
I can't recall but I'm almost sure there is a quote on Zombie Three Seas regarding a time-jump between TAE and TSTSNBN.

Given the existence of Anagke, I find it interesting that the Survivor marvels at having survived the Thousand Thousand Halls encumbered as he was having to protect a newborn.

I don't really see why the Boy wouldn't rejoin Achamian and Mimara. As others have mentioned, I'd really like the Boy and Kelmomas to meet.

Otherwise, he might run into Sarl and his Beard :o .
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MSJ

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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 02:55:48 am »
I've been thinking on the Boy and his name also. I don't believe he ever got a name at Ishüal because he was a defective. I think that Mimara will name him. Either through something she glimpses through the JE or just because.
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geoffrobro

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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 03:40:15 am »
I thought the boy was just physical defective  (the crab hand) other then that he is just a untrained Dunyain.
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RedSetter4570

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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 05:33:14 am »
Could the Son be an indicator of the Gods' intervention?  They can't see the No God, but they can see Khellus.  It seems the Judging Eye opens when necessary, not when asked, which means it probably has some connection to the Gods.  If the boy was meant to survive, it explains the Survivor's un-Dunyain behavior to him, and eventual salvation (?) at the end of his life.  So could the Gods have chosen the Son to be their agent?  Of what...I don't know know, maybe the next book.

Also, unless every Dunyain was named Anasarimbor, which is a real possibility, what logical evidence does the Surivior know it was his son?  Seems to be a guess based on feeling and fatherly instinct, something lacking in the Dunyain. 

Was there is a reason why Moeghus called his son (was there any way to know Khellus was his, outside of Cnaiur's memory, but the only other Dunyain adult we have met alive was horribly scarred, they could be clones for all we know) or did his simply call the most promising and talented of that generation?
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Jackehehe

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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 09:03:57 am »

It is Achamians nature to teach and on their journey he would teach him as he taught his grandfather, if they reach the Ordeal then he might even fall under the guidance of Kellhus. With Serwa they could have a family reunion, although the time seems to be short. It might be the true reason that Bakker came up with the Achamian break with Kellhus and his journey to Ishual was so he could pick up the boy and bring him into the story proper. Or at least a major reason, along with the twins that Mimara will bare, the new protagonists of the next series.


Lol, for some reason when I read this, it felt kind of innocent and cosy-like! Family reunions etc.

Nah but interesting topic tbh. As I understood it a third "triology" is more or less decided, right? Assuming there will be a time jump again (which, by the way, was such a masterful move by Bakker tbh and a true showcase of his story-telling skills; the fact that he decided NOT to write the 20 years as 'filler books' and also the time jump acting as a natural divider between the 'triologies') one starts to wonder what characters will still be around for the next series. This wee lad certainly seems like a strong candidate and I'm very hyped to see what happens to him who, seemingly, possesses even more of the 'Strength' while at the same time retaining his humanity?

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 09:53:26 pm »
Also, unless every Dunyain was named Anasarimbor, which is a real possibility, what logical evidence does the Surivior know it was his son? 

Pheromones.  Real-world children can distinguish the scent of their mothers during infancy.  A Dunyain would surely be able to do that for an infant of his own blood.  Also likely is facial resemblance - Koringhus got the boy out when he was an infant, that means he must have been born shortly before the Sranc attacked.  So he would have had sufficient time to see the boy's face. The world conspires.
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if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

Odium

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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 10:31:39 pm »
In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 10:50:21 pm »
In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

Yes but with such a small population, after 2000 years they would have bred the best with the best until all lines were thoroughly mixed, so that may be not much of a practical difference.

RedSetter4570

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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 04:55:53 am »
In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

Yes but with such a small population, after 2000 years they would have bred the best with the best until all lines were thoroughly mixed, so that may be not much of a practical difference.

So the Dunyain are basically super smart hillbillies?  Yes, I'll buy that.
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Titan

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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 05:28:14 am »
In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

Yes but with such a small population, after 2000 years they would have bred the best with the best until all lines were thoroughly mixed, so that may be not much of a practical difference.

So the Dunyain are basically super smart hillbillies?  Yes, I'll buy that.

Not exactly what I was trying to say, but I guess that is one way to put it.  ;D

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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 04:53:31 pm »
Could the Son be an indicator of the Gods' intervention?  They can't see the No God, but they can see Khellus.  It seems the Judging Eye opens when necessary, not when asked, which means it probably has some connection to the Gods.  If the boy was meant to survive, it explains the Survivor's un-Dunyain behavior to him, and eventual salvation (?) at the end of his life.  So could the Gods have chosen the Son to be their agent?  Of what...I don't know know, maybe the next book.

It smacks of Fate, right?

Nah but interesting topic tbh. As I understood it a third "triology" is more or less decided, right? Assuming there will be a time jump again (which, by the way, was such a masterful move by Bakker tbh and a true showcase of his story-telling skills; the fact that he decided NOT to write the 20 years as 'filler books' and also the time jump acting as a natural divider between the 'triologies') one starts to wonder what characters will still be around for the next series. This wee lad certainly seems like a strong candidate and I'm very hyped to see what happens to him who, seemingly, possesses even more of the 'Strength' while at the same time retaining his humanity?

I'll have to look again one day but I'm almost sure that Bakker mentions a time-gap between TAE and TSTSNBN on Zombie Three Seas...

Also, unless every Dunyain was named Anasarimbor, which is a real possibility, what logical evidence does the Surivior know it was his son? 

Pheromones.  Real-world children can distinguish the scent of their mothers during infancy.  A Dunyain would surely be able to do that for an infant of his own blood.  Also likely is facial resemblance - Koringhus got the boy out when he was an infant, that means he must have been born shortly before the Sranc attacked.  So he would have had sufficient time to see the boy's face. The world conspires.

Classic packed Bakker one-liner buried in the Survivor's Qirri overdose:

Quote from: TGO, p407
And yet he had found himself in the nursery without thought, scooping up this very babe without thought, the one that smelled of him, of Anasurimbor, the most promising of the Twelve Germs.

In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

Yes but with such a small population, after 2000 years they would have bred the best with the best until all lines were thoroughly mixed, so that may be not much of a practical difference.

I'll have to link this in the other thread too but Wilshire organized some great thoughts on this topic years ago regarding how many "Germs" the OG Dunyain would need: How many were the original Dunyain refugees?
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Triskele

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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 03:34:06 am »
Were the Anasurimbor one of the Twelve Germs or was the son of Koringhus one of Twelve Germs like twelve of Koringhus' seed? 

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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 03:58:32 pm »
I read 12 germs as Triskele did. 12 germs, meaning either 12 children currently in the birthing room, or 12 of Koringus' children.

However, I'd very much like an answer to how many families started Ishual, and 12 selfishly falls within my original calculations, so I like this theory.

However, why would he refer to family lines, or anything else, as 'germs'? Did the Dunyain develop enough in advanced biology to come up with germ theory, cell theory, and have an understanding of DNA... Color me surprised.
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JRControl

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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 04:05:03 pm »
In one of his PoV scenes Koringhus shoots down the idea of all Dunyain being Anasurimbors. He just confirms that they are the greatest of the (I think eight?) lineages that were selected to form part of the Ishual project.

Yes but with such a small population, after 2000 years they would have bred the best with the best until all lines were thoroughly mixed, so that may be not much of a practical difference.

So the Dunyain are basically super smart hillbillies?  Yes, I'll buy that.

Like in Texas, cousins are the currency of Ishual.
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