(TUC Spoilers) Thoughts on TUC

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Redeagl

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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 04:50:11 pm »
Zeum still has all its sorcerers bar Malowebi. And Kellhus himself was impressed by the power and potential of the Iswazi.

Also, the EG states that the Swayal Compact outnumbers the Mandate two to one, yet there don't seem to be that many Nuns actually accompanying the Great Ordeal. Many of the battle scenes don't mention them at all, or only include a handful, far fewer than the number of Schoolmen described. The witches that do appear seem to be mostly older women who had already been illegally practising sorcery before the Manumission. I strongly suspect that there are a lot of half-trained witches back in Orovelai who did not accompany the Great Ordeal.

So I don't think humanity is quite so bereft of sorcerous might as some of you fear.
It's worth mentioning that the Zeumi sorcerers are all Anagogic.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 07:06:17 pm »
Great post, Ciogli.

Yeah... not a lot going for Earwa's humanity right now. As far as I recall, the omnipresent war POVs in TUC describe Kellhus' Ordeal the largest army assembled, ever, by almost double if I recall correctly.

Plus Kellhus' was the only empire in Earwa's history that institutionalized Witches.


The size of the Ordeal never made sense to me because if you go back to PON the First Holy War was the same size, around 300k. The Ordeal definitely had many more sorcerors however. That is the biggest problem is the death of so many magic users. The cream of the Three Seas military is dead but there are still enough people in Zeum and the Three Seas to assemble big armies.
Yeah I think Bakker screwed up with how many are left by the time they get to Golgotterath. It was only reduced to 1/4th its size? Realistically, the host would probably be reduced that much just from an unopposed march of that size, much less the battlefield attrition suffered, autocannibalism, and the god damn nuke. He did a better job with the Holy War.

Likaro

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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 07:37:28 pm »
They had around 300k when they left and around 100k at the battle of Golgotterath. I would have liked it more if he left with like 500 k and got there with 100 k but whatever.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 08:27:32 pm »
I thought the initial Ordeal was around half a million men?

Personally before this book I figured we were down to 1/10th or even 1/20th of the original host (but still most of the schoolmen, which is what matters)

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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 03:07:59 pm »
Zeum still has all its sorcerers bar Malowebi. And Kellhus himself was impressed by the power and potential of the Iswazi.

Also, the EG states that the Swayal Compact outnumbers the Mandate two to one, yet there don't seem to be that many Nuns actually accompanying the Great Ordeal. Many of the battle scenes don't mention them at all, or only include a handful, far fewer than the number of Schoolmen described. The witches that do appear seem to be mostly older women who had already been illegally practising sorcery before the Manumission. I strongly suspect that there are a lot of half-trained witches back in Orovelai who did not accompany the Great Ordeal.

So I don't think humanity is quite so bereft of sorcerous might as some of you fear.

Despite Bakker's cagey responses on the AMA (I've yet to really dig into the Q&A thread here), it seems like there's a surviving portion of the Ordeal.

It's worth mentioning that the Zeumi sorcerers are all Anagogic.

That's the implication but we don't really know much about the Mbimayu. As per Malowebi in TGO, the way the Mbimayu inutteral works seemed anomalous as did their use of fetishes. Also, Zeum, like the Fanim, doesn't separate faith and sorcery, which is... curious, to say the least.

Yeah I think Bakker screwed up with how many are left by the time they get to Golgotterath. It was only reduced to 1/4th its size? Realistically, the host would probably be reduced that much just from an unopposed march of that size, much less the battlefield attrition suffered, autocannibalism, and the god damn nuke. He did a better job with the Holy War.

I'd have to check but while the whole Ordeal - minus the congregation where Sorweel finds Zsoronga - participated in eating the Scalded, I think that the text explicitly says that only ten thousand contributed to the preceding Night of Bacchanal and the slaughter of the Judges.
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