[TUC Spoilers] Thoughts post-AMA slog/Unholy Consultation thread

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Likaro

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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2017, 11:31:57 pm »
Yeah he did say that. But Bakker also lies and makes things up as he goes as well  :P

Woden

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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2017, 11:44:17 pm »
Yes, with Bakker I know that I know nothing.
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

Baztek

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« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2017, 11:48:23 pm »
Aurang really shouldn't have gone out like a chump. How you build up a dude for 7 books and take him out in 2 pages? I feel like Bakker was the one guy who was gonna deliver the goods since I've been feeling like tons of works lately have been guilty of this, though I can't name any off the top of my head. But nope.

sohorat

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« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2017, 12:15:35 am »
Aurang was but one of many villains that were summarily chumped. 

Sos-Praniura was likewise a disappointment.

He was the Founder of the Mangaecca, and the greatest student of Gin'yursis.

I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I think in TUC he was described as the Lord of Poisons, and one of the few named Quyan Erratics that got name-checked in death.

Wouldn't that have made him Siqu, rather than student?

littlegrice

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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2017, 12:29:24 am »
Aurang really shouldn't have gone out like a chump. How you build up a dude for 7 books and take him out in 2 pages? I feel like Bakker was the one guy who was gonna deliver the goods since I've been feeling like tons of works lately have been guilty of this, though I can't name any off the top of my head. But nope.

With this fight in particular I think it was just to show how much MORE Kellhus was than literally everyone else.  The scene against Meppa was pretty awesome, but Aurang?  Ain't nobody got no time for no AURANG...And I also thought that most of the sorcerer-ie battles that were not in the POV of one of the fighters were kind of lack-luster.  No suspense, just destruction.  Except for the tumbling of the Towers.  That was awesome.
Well, he no talkie good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to 'TELL ME...' and 'WHAT DO YOU SEE?' and, 'WHAT AM I?' Exclusively in that order.

BabyKellhus

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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2017, 12:30:04 am »
On the subject of those nonmen, I'm curious about the red ghoul. I'm sure this is a fault on my reading, but everyone seems to know who he is, and I, for the life of me have no clue what his deal is.  Can a smarter person enlighten me haha?

Baztek

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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2017, 12:32:55 am »
Aurang really shouldn't have gone out like a chump. How you build up a dude for 7 books and take him out in 2 pages? I feel like Bakker was the one guy who was gonna deliver the goods since I've been feeling like tons of works lately have been guilty of this, though I can't name any off the top of my head. But nope.

With this fight in particular I think it was just to show how much MORE Kellhus was than literally everyone else.  The scene against Meppa was pretty awesome, but Aurang?  Ain't nobody got no time for no AURANG...And I also thought that most of the sorcerer-ie battles that were not in the POV of one of the fighters were kind of lack-luster.  No suspense, just destruction.  Except for the tumbling of the Towers.  That was awesome.

We've been getting that for 7 books. It just gets old.

littlegrice

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« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2017, 12:38:56 am »
Aurang really shouldn't have gone out like a chump. How you build up a dude for 7 books and take him out in 2 pages? I feel like Bakker was the one guy who was gonna deliver the goods since I've been feeling like tons of works lately have been guilty of this, though I can't name any off the top of my head. But nope.

With this fight in particular I think it was just to show how much MORE Kellhus was than literally everyone else.  The scene against Meppa was pretty awesome, but Aurang?  Ain't nobody got no time for no AURANG...And I also thought that most of the sorcerer-ie battles that were not in the POV of one of the fighters were kind of lack-luster.  No suspense, just destruction.  Except for the tumbling of the Towers.  That was awesome.

We've been getting that for 7 books. It just gets old.

Yeah.  It would have been nice, I think, if the Great Ordeal(the book itself) had gone until they reached Golgotterath, and the entire Unholy Consult would have been the fight.  Way more breathing room for the epic one on ones we had been hoping for, more introspection on why the Consult did this or that.  We all have wishes, do we not?  All I can do now is make the most sense of what we have been given.
Well, he no talkie good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to 'TELL ME...' and 'WHAT DO YOU SEE?' and, 'WHAT AM I?' Exclusively in that order.

Likaro

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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2017, 01:02:01 am »
If Aurang is dead, Bakker really should have given us at least an awesome 1 full page sorcerous battle. Instead he gets one-shotted and pwned by Kellhus.

I get that Kellhus is fucking powerful. But Aurang has been around for ages and fought countless battles - he should put up more fight than Meppa.

Which I guess is par for the course with Bakker. He is a master of big picture battlefield description but has very few good individual duel scenes that I can recall.

Bolivar

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« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2017, 03:04:21 am »
This morning Bakker responded to my post and blew up the simulation theory with a simple "No."

RIP threads of white

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Moosehunter

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« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2017, 09:21:34 am »
I feel Bakker was much more forthcoming and precise in his answers during his later visit to reddit.
He really consolidated some lines of thinking for me. Looking forward to my rereads now.

The following were 2 points that i was spending a lot of time pondering and a redditor got an answer to both.


"There's a fine line between dreams lying and dreamers misinterpreting. Kellhus sent Malowebi back to punish the Satakhan for violating his treaty with the New Empire." - RSB Reddit AMA Aug 2017

Akka's dreams haven't been manipulated. He is misinterpreting.

The Malowebi/Ciphrang sent to kill the Sathakhan was simply a vehicle to get Malowebi as a POV character. Although RSB has been less than truthful (misdirection not malice) in the past, he tends to say RAFO if something may have further significance.

Kellhus is absolutely dead. It is absolutely Ajokli that has manifested in Cnaiur and he cannot find Kellhus.
Is Ajokli trapped on Earwa in a physical sense now? Has Kellhus somehow supplanted him on the outside?
Can a God be supplanted given that they are a greater shard of a whole?

A part of me thinks that we are not finished with Kellhus even though he is "dead". Another, greater part, thinks RSB is completely genuine here and that Kellhus was simply outclassed from the get go (the Circumfixtion).




Cynical Cat

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« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 11:09:32 am »
If Aurang is dead, Bakker really should have given us at least an awesome 1 full page sorcerous battle. Instead he gets one-shotted and pwned by Kellhus.

I get that Kellhus is fucking powerful. But Aurang has been around for ages and fought countless battles - he should put up more fight than Meppa.

Which I guess is par for the course with Bakker. He is a master of big picture battlefield description but has very few good individual duel scenes that I can recall.

I have to disagree.  We have no reason to believe that Aurang is going to stand up to the Metagnosis.  We do however, get pages of him murdering tons of Schoolmen and mortally wounding the Witch Most Holy with red hot laser death.  That's not a trivial accomplishment.

Woden

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« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2017, 11:12:17 am »
But the one who blasted Serwa was a Nonman, not Aurang if I remember well.
Know what your slaves believe, and you will always be their master.

Hiro

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« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2017, 11:12:42 am »
If Aurang is dead, Bakker really should have given us at least an awesome 1 full page sorcerous battle. Instead he gets one-shotted and pwned by Kellhus.

I get that Kellhus is fucking powerful. But Aurang has been around for ages and fought countless battles - he should put up more fight than Meppa.

Which I guess is par for the course with Bakker. He is a master of big picture battlefield description but has very few good individual duel scenes that I can recall.

Well, it's Kellhus plus a growing-in-influence-Ajokli that smacks down Aurang. And remember, once upon a time there were many Inchoroi. Most of them have perished in battle. Aurang has survived for ages, but he has not been on the battlefield all that time. Kellhus plus Ajokli have been fighting battles for a few decades, since the First Holy War.

I do agree that it would have been gratifying to see a more extended battle between the two. I take thematic consolation, the darkness comes before everyone, including the Inchoroi and Kellhus.

Regarding Aurang's laser antics, using a longdistance weapon is nice, but apparently not sufficient. However, was it Aurang that wielded that laser? Wasn't it an Erratic or another?
Mystery denotes darkness

Hiro

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« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2017, 11:21:38 am »

-One other thing that I don't think has been mentioned vis a vis the Consult's competency : the actual defensive battle plan for Golgotterath was very well done. In fact, unless Kellhus was going to pull a major coup in the golden room, the Ordeal was in huge trouble with the arrival of the Horde 2.0 AND the fact that the Consult had let their famed walls become destroyed. They were essentially trapped in a bottleneck with mostly destroyed fortifications, no food, and a huge horde of Sranc trying to get in, all while the gate into the Ark was barred and there were other baddies still in play within Golgotterath.

So in that much at least, the Consult was very competent.

Good point, Likaro. After all the Consult bashing, you are right, their battle tactics turned out to be pretty good.
Mystery denotes darkness