(TUC spoilers) Esme, what makes her so important

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MSJ

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« on: September 01, 2017, 03:16:28 pm »
This thread is based on a post The Honorable H made elsewhere. So, I'm not taking credit from him. But, I've been thinking long on this since then.

H, mentioned that Esme brought The Prophet (Mimara) and also The No-God (Kelmommas) into the world. She is Kellhus only darkness. (Is go into Baby Kellhus here but that's another thread, and one im continually interested in).

H, brought up how she is the Mary mother of Jesus figure and possibly Mary Magdalene. All quote interesting tho he to think on.

Kellhus knew he had to have Esme and in PiN attributed to her intellect, bullshit. He just hadn't learned enough about the world to know her importance at the time and I don't think he did at the end either. I do think he loved her, but I won't go over that her. You can find many a thread with H and I arguing over that. But, one thing is for sure, Esme is crucial to the events of TSA so far and wherever it goes from here.

So, I'd love for H to share his thoughts, but others too. What makes this women, basically the bringer of God and The No-God into the world. And, any ideas as to what role she might play going forward.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

False Man

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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 05:03:12 pm »
Quote
H, mentioned that Esme brought The Prophet (Mimara) and also The No-God (Kelmommas) into the world.

Not only that, she's the only non-Dunyain woman to give Kellhus live children (even if a little mad).
There must be a reason for it: because she's saved? Because she's an angelic Ciphrang? But why is she?

Srancy

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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 06:08:47 pm »
The original Prophet that brought Man into Earwa had a wife named Esmenet.

So maybe they will colonize the Void with the new ship the Mutilated will build

H

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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 12:17:36 pm »
Well, my idea, off-handed as it was, was born of sitting through one of the usual church services.

Bakker was born and raised Christian, so it's not surprising that many elements of the Christian mythos ends up in the series, even where it isn't explicitly important (for example, 144k is just a number in Eärwa, but it has biblical significance).  I think though, this isn't a case of it being unimportant, just not a straight-forward as we would probably like.  Esmenet is very important, but why exactly is a mystery we probably will never learn the answer to.

Perhaps she like Mary was born without sin.  Or perhaps it is another case of always being who she would become (mother of god).  Of course Bakker would wholly invert the role, being explicitly not a virgin, yet she would give birth to the god.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 03:02:37 pm »
And, we know per Bakker, that whenever he writes he has a copy of the King James version of the Bible on hand. So, I'm sure there is alot to what you said.

But, not only did she bring TNG (Kel), she brought Mimara into the world also. So, even if we don't find out what makes her special, she is special nonetheless.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Monkhound

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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 04:10:43 pm »
The original Prophet that brought Man into Earwa had a wife named Esmenet.

And not to forget Akka's mentioning it being such an odd name for a whore somewhere in PoN... or something the like.
Cuts and cuts and cuts...

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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 01:59:34 am »
The original Prophet that brought Man into Earwa had a wife named Esmenet.

And not to forget Akka's mentioning it being such an odd name for a whore somewhere in PoN... or something the like.

That was one of his ruminations. Kind of a difficult one to place... TDTCB upon her introduction from his POV or TWP when he's pining for her early on or else on the way to the Sareotic Library? I actually just got back my Bakker books recently, maybe I'll reread the series.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 03:18:40 pm by Madness »
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themerchant

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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 05:01:03 am »
maybe just before he is overcome by the SS in the library.

H

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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 11:15:06 am »
The original Prophet that brought Man into Earwa had a wife named Esmenet.

And not to forget Akka's mentioning it being such an odd name for a whore somewhere in PoN... or something the like.

That was one of his ruminations. Kind of a difficult one to place... TDTCB upon her introduction from his POV or WLW when he's pining for her early on or else on the way to the Sareotic Library? I actually just got back my Bakker books recently, maybe I'll reread the series.

Quote
In a way, he’d always known he would return here, not only to Sumna, but to this place between the arms and legs of this tired woman. Esmenet. A strange, old-fashioned name for a woman of her character, but at the same time oddly appropriate for a prostitute.
Esmenet. How could a name affect him so?

TDTCB, Chapter 3.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 03:18:53 pm »
Thank you, good sir.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2019, 03:48:21 pm »
Esmenet bearing both the True Prophet and the Endless Hunger is something I don't think I've explicitly thought of before.

Her therefore being Kellhus "only darkness" seems like it could easily be attributed to Kelmomas and all the confusion he brings about for Kellhus, as well as the Mimara having TJE. But far beyond that, the Why of it does seem like an interesting factoid that I'd like to know. 

Bakker does sometimes just like his Yin-Yang tied closely together. The mother of the World's Last Hope and the World's End is poetic enough to simply be something that he thought was cool.
One of the other conditions of possibility.