TDTCB, Ch. 14

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What Came Before

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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 03:11:13 am »
Quote from: Madness
Traditionally, a singular halo would be around his head. Also, religious iconography can get intensely specific; for instance, saint's are depicted with circular halos, Jesus has a halo around a cross, living people "destined to become saints" are depicted by square halos.

I think you've highlighted something interesting with this, Wrath (also, cheers to making it over). Bakker would play some game with language... Indication of something?

What Came Before

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 03:11:28 am »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Something else interesting about the "does Serwe have the JE?" question (significant spoilers for tAE):
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What Came Before

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 03:11:44 am »
Quote from: Madness
Connection to the Gods and Outside? Possibly, yes.

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What Came Before

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 03:11:56 am »
Quote from: WrathOfMe
I've just finished c. 15 on my reread, but I'm definitely paying close attention to her POV to see what else scares up. May also dig out TJE and WLW a bit early to contrast with Mimara.

Also found a lot of really interesting stuff with trees but will look through those earlier threads before posting...

What Came Before

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 03:12:12 am »
Quote from: Madness
Trees only really started coming up in the last two chapters... Serwe making the difference.

I'd definitely advocate going back and adding your own thoughts and flavors to the Almanac's preceding posts. Take yer time and wade in :D.

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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 03:13:09 am »
Quote from: Meyna
Quote from: Duskweaver
Something else interesting about the "does Serwe have the JE?" question (significant spoilers for tAE):
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

What Came Before

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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 03:13:34 am »
Quote from: Madness
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 03:13:45 am »
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Madness
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 03:13:59 am »
Quote from: Madness
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Lol, Wilshire is going to come post Vitriol Preacher Man down here.

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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 03:14:09 am »
Quote from: Duskweaver
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I'd argue that "loads of spoilers" /= "off-topic", so Jimmy McMillan isn't called for here. Not yet, anyway. ;)

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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 03:14:23 am »
Quote from: Madness
Psh. It would be foolish to omit further corroboration simply because we may have talked about it ;).

Though...

I remember... posting...

+1 for Recurrent Thoughts.

EDIT: Lol. I'm sure posting discussion of TAE spoilers in TDTCB, Ch. 14 is slightly off topic. Thankfully, I haven't given Wilshire those godlike powers yet.

sologdin

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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2013, 04:03:53 pm »
not much on this chapter for me.

Quote
With the knife, he cut a lteral line across her forearm.  The pain was sharp and quick, but she bit her lip rather than cry out.  "Swazond," he said in harsh Scylvendi tones.  "The man you have killed is gone from the world, Serwe. He exists only here, a scar upon your arm.  It is the mark of his absence, of all the ways his soul will not move, and of all the acts he will not commit.  A mark of the weight you now bear."  He smeared the would with his palm, then clutched her hand.
"I don't understand," Serwe whimpered, as bewildered as she was terrified.  Why was he doing this?  Was this his punishment?  Why had he called her by name?
(I.14 at 412).

this is bit that made me love the series.  it is a nice nutshell of vulgar derridean linguistics: the writing is the mark of an absent presence. 

we know that CuS did not know serwe's name earlier (I.13 at 385).  perhaps the writing of the swazond has sufficient ritual significance for him to be troubled with her name now. 

we might loop the writing of the swazond back to the chapter epigram: 
Quote
Some men continually war against circumstances, but I say they perpetually flee.  What are the works of men if not a momentary respite, a hiding place soon to be discovered by catastrophe?  Life is endless flight before the hunter we call the world.
(I.14 at 404). 

swazond marks the hunter with the mark of the hunted.  just as the derridean signified continually flees the signifier, the writer of the swazond flees catastrophe, seeking momentary respite in the writing of the swazond. 

[ETA--likely this epigraph must be read in pari materia with the epigraphs on I.1 (re: hunting a hare and finding something else) and I.2 (re: hunting that extinguishes the hunt)]

we might also note the dual use that mark receives in this writing: the sorcerer is marked also by swazond: but who is the hunted therein?

and so too is AK marked by swazond:
Quote
She smiled tears of rapturous joy.  She could see him as he truly was now, radiant with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands.  She could see him!
(I.14 at 417).

putting aside the issue of whether this is JE or insanity or both or whatever, serwe plainly perceives the mark on AK's arms and is seized by "rapturous" emotion.  who then is the hunted represented in AK's golden swazond?

in answer to the ultimate question from my reading of chapter 13: if CuS is moses, then what is the law?  it is plain to me that the law is swazond:
Quote
You are my prize, Serwe.  My tribe
(I.14 at 412).  i.e., the law of the tribe as it crosses the mountain into the promised land.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 08:40:26 pm by sologdin »

locke

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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2013, 12:06:34 am »
not much on this chapter for me.

Quote
With the knife, he cut a lteral line across her forearm.  The pain was sharp and quick, but she bit her lip rather than cry out.  "Swazond," he said in harsh Scylvendi tones.  "The man you have killed is gone from the world, Serwe. He exists only here, a scar upon your arm.  It is the mark of his absence, of all the ways his soul will not move, and of all the acts he will not commit.  A mark of the weight you now bear."  He smeared the would with his palm, then clutched her hand.
"I don't understand," Serwe whimpered, as bewildered as she was terrified.  Why was he doing this?  Was this his punishment?  Why had he called her by name?
(I.14 at 412).

this is bit that made me love the series.  it is a nice nutshell of vulgar derridean linguistics: the writing is the mark of an absent presence. 

we know that CuS did not know serwe's name earlier (I.13 at 385).  perhaps the writing of the swazond has sufficient ritual significance for him to be troubled with her name now. 

we might loop the writing of the swazond back to the chapter epigram: 
Quote
Some men continually war against circumstances, but I say they perpetually flee.  What are the works of men if not a momentary respite, a hiding place soon to be discovered by catastrophe?  Life is endless flight before the hunter we call the world.
(I.14 at 404). 

swazond marks the hunter with the mark of the hunted.  just as the derridean signified continually flees the signifier, the writer of the swazond flees catastrophe, seeking momentary respite in the writing of the swazond. 
And let us not forget that the word Scylvendi means Catastrophe, and if we identify the 'writer of the swazond' as a scylvendi and 'writing of the swazond' as being scylvendi,  your sentence could read: scylvendi flees scylvendi, seeking momentary respite in being scylvendi.

What does it mean that in 'writing swazond' the scylvendi flee themselves?


Quote
we might also note the dual use that mark receives in this writing: the sorcerer is marked also by swazond: but who is the hunted therein?

and so too is AK marked by swazond:
Quote
She smiled tears of rapturous joy.  She could see him as he truly was now, radiant with otherworldly light, haloes like golden discs shining about his hands.  She could see him!
(I.14 at 417).

putting aside the issue of whether this is JE or insanity or both or whatever, serwe plainly perceives the mark on AK's arms and is seized by "rapturous" emotion.  who then is the hunted represented in AK's golden swazond?

in answer to the ultimate question from my reading of chapter 13: if CuS is moses, then what is the law?  it is plain to me that the law is swazond:
Quote
You are my prize, Serwe.  My tribe
(I.14 at 412).  i.e., the law of the tribe as it crosses the mountain into the promised land.

I feel deeply stupid for not recognizing two things:

One, that the sorcerous Mark is a Swazond-of-the-soul.  Only sorcerers are murdering the world, rather than another person and the world marks their crime with swazond.  This revelation calls for an immediate compare and contrast between the definition of the Mark and of the Swazond. And this question should be put to RSB should we ever have the opportunity for a Q&A/plying.

Two, that Serwe experiences the visual revelation of Kellhus' divinity AFTER receiving the physical/metaphysical swazond.  What comes before determines what comes after, Serwe receives Swazond then Serwe sees visions. ;)

I've postulated before that the definition of Swazond set forth here indicates the possibility that souls are Tethered to the swazond scar itself (like Harry Potter's Horcrux). If Serwe has just received a connection to the Outside via a second soul tethered to her own, perhaps that is why she can now see Kellhus' divinity?

Additionally, regarding up thread queries into Serwe's blue babies.  It is possible that all of Serwe's children were stillborn.  What better way to "Hurt&Punish" a rival woman who has just given birth than to tell her that her just birthed child has been murdered in a most casual and callous manner?  It would be 'sweet revenge' to tell a rival woman who had delivered a stillbirth that her baby had been born live but been killed because she would suffer far more at thinking all her babies were killed because of her caste/status than she would suffer thinking that she had delivered a stillbirth. 

So we shouldn't rule out the possibility that Serwe has the judging eye.