Chorae

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Madness

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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 05:49:17 pm »
Why? It's Sarcellus', non-Chorae having, companion skin-spy who gets his heart ripped out...
Sure but it seems like a general rule that the chorae only makes you immune to the metaphysical. Pick up a rock and throw it with sorcery and it still hurts. I can't imagine why this wouldn't extend to the body of the caster.
I guess the schoolman would still have to worry about being hit by the chorae. Wouldn't want to plunge your hand through a suit of armor and clip a chorae on your way in. Instasalt.

Still though moving at hyper speeds would have a lot of advantages.

You've been hovering around Westeros? This seems to reflect the flavour of the day there...

I just don't know then, Wilshire. I'm thinking that Inrau's hand would have been stopped wherever the boundary of a Chorae extends to (whatever that is; a foot away, at the armor, at the skin, etc) if he'd tried that shit on Sarcellus.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2013, 06:03:21 pm »
As a rule I try to avoid the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named.  ;). So no I haven't been lurking.


What makes the hand different than a rock in this situation? The Swayali cloth blocks chorae quite nicely, and Kellhus' little rock whirlwind in Shimeh kept him alive as well.
Also, Achamian dropping the roof on the Javreh killed all of them.

Why not your hand?
If not the hand, then what about if it was gloved, either in mail or in leather or even cloth?
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2013, 06:09:09 pm »
Lol - so either:

You're holding a Chorae in your hand held above your head and I punch through your chest with sorcerous speed, you die and the Chorae affords you no protection because it didn't touch me directly?

OR

You're holding a Chorae in your hand above your head and I go to punch through your chest with sorcerous speed but turn to salt the second we make skin-to-skin contact?

Tedium-extraordinaire ;).
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Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2013, 06:14:03 pm »
I guess thats the conundrum.

But to me, since the clothing still flutters with sorcerous wind as its struck by the chorae arrows, or since the rocks still spin around when they are struck, it seems to me that their magical enchantment isn't removed with the contact.

Also, we know that there is some distance affect of the chorae effect (I'm sorry for using affect/effect incorrectly if I did), so do certain parts of the body have less protection than others? Like if held in the right hand, is the left under less anti-magic shielding?

btw, does the chorae remove the mark? Does the salt pillar lose the bruise, and is the scarred battle ground of an arcane standoff healed? We know that objects that are worked, such as the ground hit by The Culling (or whatever its called when the schoolmen try to kill the sranc), bares the mark. The physical ground is not "reknit" when the chorae pass by, but is the bruise healed?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 06:16:09 pm by Wilshire »
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Madness

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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 08:04:43 pm »
But to me, since the clothing still flutters with sorcerous wind as its struck by the chorae arrows, or since the rocks still spin around when they are struck, it seems to me that their magical enchantment isn't removed with the contact.

Noted. Good call.

Also, we know that there is some distance affect of the chorae effect (I'm sorry for using affect/effect incorrectly if I did), so do certain parts of the body have less protection than others? Like if held in the right hand, is the left under less anti-magic shielding?

I think you're good on affect/effect but I question it notoriously myself.

To the bold, I don't know but it's a distinction that should be described.

btw, does the chorae remove the mark? Does the salt pillar lose the bruise, and is the scarred battle ground of an arcane standoff healed? We know that objects that are worked, such as the ground hit by The Culling (or whatever its called when the schoolmen try to kill the sranc), bares the mark. The physical ground is not "reknit" when the chorae pass by, but is the bruise healed?

I hazard that there is no Mark on Salt Pillar Sorcerers. The fact that they salt and Cishaurim don't and that the only distinction between them is the difference in Mark...

The Chorae seems to be interacting specifically with the Mark, not the fact that it encounters sorcery (as different kinds and skill-levels of sorcery establish noticably different Marks - Titirga and the Cishaurim offering a narrative cypher of sorts).

While Salting seems to happen immediately once touched, I would guess that if it happened slow enough to watch the unsalted portion of the sorcerer would still carry the Mark but the salted portion would not.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2013, 12:13:00 am »
While Salting seems to happen immediately once touched, I would guess that if it happened slow enough to watch the unsalted portion of the sorcerer would still carry the Mark but the salted portion would not.
Lol that would be sweet. Plugging in a super high speed camera and watching a chorae work its "magic" on a schoolman. The slow transmutation of flesh into salt.
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 01:53:21 pm »
Pfft. You know that will be a thing whenever a visual medium is adapted to TSA :)).
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Ishammael

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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 06:02:43 pm »
To drive into further needless questions...

If you cut the arm off a person with the Mark, and then hit it with a chorae... will the arm salt?  Will you see the Mark on the arm after it is cut off? 

What about the hair of a Marked man?  After he gets a haircut, will it have the Mark and/or be saltable?

I honestly doubt that these sorts of questions have any relevancy in the story and I don't think that Bakker has probably pondered the nuance... but still fun to question!

Crtha

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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2013, 11:27:59 pm »
Chorae undo the changes wrought by sorcery. 

In the case of salting sorcerers, it seems to be an action that occurs on the sorcerer's soul (which is the mechanism of sorcery) rather than their body.  When chorae cancel the effects of a sorcerous assault there is no salty residue.  I imagine touching a dismembered arm would not turn it to salt because the sorcerer's soul is no longer connected.

Touching a wathi doll might create a little pile of salt though.
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locke

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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 11:43:13 pm »
Chorae undo the changes wrought by sorcery. 
I thought chorae semantically negated (or perhaps are semantically not overridden) by sorcery.

Or it could just be a chorae is inscribed with:

+++Divide by Cucumber error.

Please reinstall soul and reboot.+++

which would naturally turn anyone into salt. being rebooted is not so good for the sack-o-flesh human.

Crtha

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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 12:17:09 am »
Sorry I misspoke. 
By changes, I meant the semantic regression. The soul is the source of the regression. Chorae negate sorcery as it occurs.
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2013, 05:18:03 pm »
To drive into further needless questions...

1) If you cut the arm off a person with the Mark, and then hit it with a chorae... will the arm salt?  2) Will you see the Mark on the arm after it is cut off? 

3) What about the hair of a Marked man?  4) After he gets a haircut, will it have the Mark and/or be saltable?

I honestly doubt that these sorts of questions have any relevancy in the story and I don't think that Bakker has probably pondered the nuance... but still fun to question!

Measure is unceasing ;).

1 - 4: I think the Salting depends on the appendage remaining attached to the soul. So arm/hair would remained Marked, like other inert objects (Achamian mentions the trees carrying the Mark of his battles with Sranc around his tower long after they've ceased happening and Serwa remarks on the "Nameless Ruins" in Wilshire's Ch. 3 Excerpt summary carrying a "strange Mark"). The argument would be then that Marked inert objects don't react to the Chorae because it is not ensoulled.

Like...

I imagine touching a dismembered arm would not turn it to salt because the sorcerer's soul is no longer connected.

Touching a wathi doll might create a little pile of salt though.

+1.

Chorae undo the changes wrought by sorcery. 
I thought chorae semantically negated (or perhaps are semantically not overridden) by sorcery.

Or it could just be a chorae is inscribed with:

+++Divide by Cucumber error.

Please reinstall soul and reboot.+++

which would naturally turn anyone into salt. being rebooted is not so good for the sack-o-flesh human.

I Lol'd.
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locke

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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2013, 07:17:39 pm »

1 - 4: I think the Salting depends on the appendage remaining attached to the soul. So arm/hair would remained Marked, like other inert objects (Achamian mentions the trees carrying the Mark of his battles with Sranc around his tower long after they've ceased happening and Serwa remarks on the "Nameless Ruins" in Wilshire's Ch. 3 Excerpt summary carrying a "strange Mark"). The argument would be then that Marked inert objects don't react to the Chorae because it is not ensoulled.



iirc, Kellhus sees the mark on the nameless ruins he encounters pre-Leweth.

Madness

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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 10:58:20 am »
False Prophecy:
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Madness
Lol - well, lockesnow +1. Thank you... I just realized that the ruins Moenghus the Younger dubs "Nameless" in TUC, Ch. 3 are one of the two ruins from the Prologue of TDTCB - if Wilshire remembers a dead tree, then certainly the Nonmen ruins South-West of Ishual and Leweth's camp where Kellhus fights Mekeritrig.

Alright well I recall no tree, sorry about that.  IIRC they were in a field. I also seem to think that they where on the west side of the mountain range, rather than the east where Kellhus would have been running through.

If you could be so kind, would you direct me to the relevant section in TDTCB. I'll read it over and see if my faded memory comes up with any similarities.

Quote from: TDTCB, p9
The ruins were far too old to contradict the forest outright. They had been submerged, worn and unbalanced by the ages of its weight. Sheltered in mossy hollows, walls breached earthen mounds, only to suddenly end, as though restrained by vines that wrapped them like great veins over bone.

But there was something in them, something not now, that bent Kellhus toward unfamiliar passions. When he brushed his hands across the stone, he knew he touched the breath and toil of Men - the mark of a destroyed people.

The ground wheeled. He leaned forward and pressed his cheek against the stone. Grit, and the cold uncovered earth. Above, the sunlight was broken by a span of knotted branches. Men... here in the stone. Old and untouched by the rigour of the Dunyain. Somehow they had resisted the sleep, had raised the work of hands against the wilderness.

I'm not sure how to read it. And Wilshire does suggest above that the three amigos are on the westside of the mountains.

Maybe it is laced and Titirga laid waste to an ancient people there.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 11:02:40 pm »
iirc, Kellhus sees the mark on the nameless ruins he encounters pre-Leweth.
After reading Madness' quote, I'd have to disagree. Reminds me a lot more of a Topos than of a marked place. "Something not now" and "he touched the breadth and toil of man" drive me towards Topos. However, I only see it when I'm looking hard for it. Hard to say if there is anything actually there at all.
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