Chorae

  • 126 Replies
  • 20272 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2013, 02:18:12 am »
What makes the hand different than a rock in this situation? The Swayali cloth blocks chorae quite nicely, and Kellhus' little rock whirlwind in Shimeh kept him alive as well.

Is there a specific example of the Swayali cloth blocking chorae, and then what happens afterwards? I just recently re-read the Kellhus/whirlwind part, and it does say specifically that a chorae arrow glances off a rock, cracking the sorcery that bound it there.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2013, 03:02:02 am »
Nope I have no specific proof, other than a faulty memory. You're correct, it does say "cracked the sorcery that bound it there".
Oh well there goes that line of though. Thanks for the correction.

BTW from reading that scene, a few things jumped out.

1) Kellhus was losing the battle with the 4 Cish. Guess he wasn't quite yet omnipotent yet. The only reason he won was because he did his little transposing stunt.

2) He 'tranposes' behind 2 of the Cish in quick succession, then catches a flying chorae bolt, throws it at the 3rd, and then destroys that last Cish.
2a) 2 jumps in a row didn't seem to cause him to be too tired. Not quite 100 jumps back to the empire but still...
2b) He catches the chorae bolt and is still able to maintain his flight. Or at least I assume he was flying since the bolt was fired from below. Maybe its just me, but I imagine this scene with all the schoolmen floating.
2c) Another description of a Cish being hit by a chorae. I had thought that Moenghus was the only one:

Quote
Proyas saw Kellhus jerk as the body tumbled down, realized he had caught a crossbow bolt fired from below. In a single snapping motion, he threw it like a knife at the nearest sorcerer-priest. There was a burst of incandescence rimmed by a nacre of black. The figure dropped.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02 04:00:00+00:00). The Thousandfold Thought (Kindle Locations 7630-7631). Overlook. Kindle Edition.
My bold. It would seem Moe's death wasn't unique.

EDIT:
The only other time the word nacre is used in TTT is from the POV of Eleäzaras:
Quote
There was a flash, white ringed with a nacre of black. One of their number, Rimon, plummeted to ground, where he shattered salt. The others ran across sky.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02 04:00:00+00:00). The Thousandfold Thought (Kindle Locations 6774-6776). Overlook. Kindle Edition. 
It seems that the Cish and the other schoolmen all die the same. I know this has been discussed before, but I don't know if anyone ever came to a conclusion.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 03:06:41 am by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2013, 03:20:22 am »
What's interesting is that the word "salt" or "salting" never seems to be used, to my knowledge, in regards to the death of Cish. Perhaps most notably, in this case of Moe, he's referred to as a corpse. And, of course, his eyes flash with light, implying non-psukhe related sorcery.

All in all, I think the nature of a Cish death is left intentionally vague, specifically because it pertains to whatever the hell is going on with Moe (and I'm a pretty big proponent of Moe being alive, so yeah).

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2013, 03:30:21 am »
You remain unconvinced even though the description of the Rimon looks a lot like the Cish quoted above it? Damn. Well you can't blame a fellow for trying. It was a loose connection anyway.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2013, 04:35:05 am »
Ah! I missed that bit. Color me satisfied, then. Well, not ENTIRELY stupified, but I must certainly rethink my assumptions.

Francis Buck

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2013, 04:41:20 am »
Fuck. Take note that I'm writing from kindle. It makes it very hard to be specific.

Soon I shall have a working computer, and then, you know, I'll be able to communicate like a normal person.

Callan S.

  • *
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Warrior-Profit
  • Posts: 654
    • View Profile
    • Philosopher Gamer
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2013, 09:01:11 am »
Side point, but it'd suck if Cish get damned/put in the torture machine if they get salted - like suddenly the big robot brain running it suddenly recognises it (given they all die the same way to chorae) and goes 'HAE! HACKS! BAN HAMMER TO DAMNATION LAND 4 U!'

More on topic, Chorae seem to rip something out of sorcerers, I believe it's described as. It's possible the person went missing, physically, some time ago, in a way. What you're dealing with (or the scarlet spires is torturing) is like a mirror image.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 4926
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2013, 12:11:07 pm »
What makes the hand different than a rock in this situation? The Swayali cloth blocks chorae quite nicely, and Kellhus' little rock whirlwind in Shimeh kept him alive as well.

Is there a specific example of the Swayali cloth blocking chorae, and then what happens afterwards? I just recently re-read the Kellhus/whirlwind part, and it does say specifically that a chorae arrow glances off a rock, cracking the sorcery that bound it there.

Nothing explicit but...

Quote from: WLW, p543
With their billows, he [Kellhus] explained, the odds were good that any one Chorae strike could be survived, so long as someone uninjured could carry the one struck away from the Horde.

Quote
Proyas saw Kellhus jerk as the body tumbled down, realized he had caught a crossbow bolt fired from below. In a single snapping motion, he threw it like a knife at the nearest sorcerer-priest. There was a burst of incandescence rimmed by a nacre of black. The figure dropped.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02 04:00:00+00:00). The Thousandfold Thought (Kindle Locations 7630-7631). Overlook. Kindle Edition.
My bold. It would seem Moe's death wasn't unique.

EDIT:
The only other time the word nacre is used in TTT is from the POV of Eleäzaras:
Quote
There was a flash, white ringed with a nacre of black. One of their number, Rimon, plummeted to ground, where he shattered salt. The others ran across sky.

Bakker, R. Scott (2008-09-02 04:00:00+00:00). The Thousandfold Thought (Kindle Locations 6774-6776). Overlook. Kindle Edition. 
It seems that the Cish and the other schoolmen all die the same. I know this has been discussed before, but I don't know if anyone ever came to a conclusion.

There are three explicit instances of Cishaurim being hit by Chorae. Moenghus, the one Kellhus kills above, and the one Proyas kills before either. Both Proyas' and Kellhus' are described exactly the same - no Salt.

I actually thought it was a direct contrast between no Salt/no Nacre of Black, for awhile, and that Rimon quote still remains the only instance I can remember finding where a Schoolman has the nacre of black. [EDIT: Yeah, sorry, you said this lol...]

And, of course, his eyes flash with light, implying non-psukhe related sorcery.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Fuck. Take note that I'm writing from kindle. It makes it very hard to be specific.

Soon I shall have a working computer, and then, you know, I'll be able to communicate like a normal person.

Lol - how are you writing? On paper :o ;)?!
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Cüréthañ

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2013, 02:12:45 am »
Rimon is SS or Cish?
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 4926
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2013, 01:27:11 pm »
Scarlet Spires, friend-o.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2013, 03:26:00 pm »
It was from Eleäzaras' POV, so "one of their number" would be one of the SS.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Cüréthañ

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2013, 11:44:19 pm »
Ta.  So the bright flash and nacre of black is consistent, but still not sure if Cish turn to salt, yes?
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4877
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2013, 11:55:47 pm »
It seems that every time a schoolman dies, salt is specifically mentioned, except in the case of the Cish. They are still refereed to as "bodies" when they die so there is no proof positive (that I can remember) that they turn to salt. They are at least killed though.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Duskweaver

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2013, 01:50:45 pm »
I seem to recall a description of a choraed Cishaurim as resembling a "sodden rag". That sounds like it's intended as an inversion of the salting (dessication?) of Schoolmen. :-\

As for how the Swayali billows work, it always seemed obvious to me that disenchanting something that is moving by sorcery would not eliminate the momentum that sorcery had already imparted to the object.
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 4926
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2013, 02:48:53 pm »
Quote
Ta.  So the bright flash and nacre of black is consistent, but still not sure if Cish turn to salt, yes?

It seems that every time a schoolman dies, salt is specifically mentioned, except in the case of the Cish. They are still refereed to as "bodies" when they die so there is no proof positive (that I can remember) that they turn to salt. They are at least killed though.

I seem to recall a description of a choraed Cishaurim as resembling a "sodden rag". That sounds like it's intended as an inversion of the salting (dessication?) of Schoolmen. :-\

As for how the Swayali billows work, it always seemed obvious to me that disenchanting something that is moving by sorcery would not eliminate the momentum that sorcery had already imparted to the object.

I liken the Cishaurim's death to the Christian conception of Rapture. If Cishaurim are the Righteous and Chorae are actually Holy Objects that Mimara sees them to be, then Cishaurim, bodies and all, might just be subsumed into... wherever the true God resides.

Leaving behind neatly folded cassocks ;).

Also, Duskweaver, do you think that if a Chorae hits an animated billow that those sorcerers/sorceresses are affected beyond that billow tail being de-sorcerized momentarily?
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer