Nonmen Society

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #150 on: March 04, 2015, 02:12:13 pm »
Wait wasn't the Nonman Emissary that treats with Kellhus one of those?

MSJ

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« Reply #151 on: March 04, 2015, 03:39:58 pm »
@sharmat, yes that's why I was asking the question, to be honest. Someone at Westeros suggested that the Norman emissary might be aligned with the Consult for that reason. And that's what prompted to understand why? Wilshire, that's how I read it, but I don't believe the emissary has the 'jin in the same place, and don't see how you can just assume he is from Nin'janjin seed. I didn't think there was some obvious connection, though I could be wrong.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #152 on: March 04, 2015, 03:57:37 pm »
I agree with that logic.

btw we know that the emissary is a liar, he mentions the Nil'Giccas is at Ishterebinith (or something along those lines), so its not a huge leap to believing that he is traitor to someone.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #153 on: March 04, 2015, 04:04:46 pm »
I agree, can't take what he says at face value, that's for sure.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MG

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« Reply #154 on: March 04, 2015, 06:44:43 pm »
hey for what it's worth, the Ishterebinth chapters in TUC have got to shed some light on this Sin'something something character that fought Cujara Cinmoi to a stand still.  he's mention in TTT glossary but his end is never noted.  perhaps it was just an earlier name for Nil-giccas maybe?

MSJ

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« Reply #155 on: March 04, 2015, 07:07:42 pm »
In the TTT almanac it say that Nin'janjin struck down CC. Is that who your referring to?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MG

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« Reply #156 on: March 04, 2015, 07:24:38 pm »
the fellow who was a lord over two mansions and Cujara finally said something like a lord of 3 mansions can be a brother to a lord of 2 mansions - that guy!  he was opposed to Cujara in the civil wars before the war with the Inchoroi and then joined with Cujara in the assault where Cujara was killed - i don't have my book with me!

MSJ

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« Reply #157 on: March 04, 2015, 07:54:29 pm »
King Sin’niroiha. I believe that's who your talking about, just looked it up.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MG

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« Reply #158 on: March 04, 2015, 10:23:53 pm »
King Sin’niroiha. I believe that's who your talking about, just looked it up.
Bingo!

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2015, 08:13:34 pm »
On the PON wikia, it states that Nin'Ciljiras is the same person as Nil'giccas.  Can someone cite where we get this information?  From Nin'sariccas in WLW, I was under the impression that the line of Nin has been in control of Ishterebinth for some time now and that Nil'giccas had been exiled loooong before the events of PON(With Nin'Ciljiras being a kind of usurper figure). 

Also want to learn more about Nin'hirarjal(sp?).  He is the author of one of the epigraphs for Four Revelations.  The line of traitors is everywhere!!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 08:15:20 pm by Hirtius/Pansa »

MG

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« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2015, 01:06:27 am »
On the PON wikia, it states that Nin'Ciljiras is the same person as Nil'giccas.  Can someone cite where we get this information?  From Nin'sariccas in WLW, I was under the impression that the line of Nin has been in control of Ishterebinth for some time now and that Nil'giccas had been exiled loooong before the events of PON(With Nin'Ciljiras being a kind of usurper figure). 

Also want to learn more about Nin'hirarjal(sp?).  He is the author of one of the epigraphs for Four Revelations.  The line of traitors is everywhere!!

i think the wiki may have got it wrong - TTT glossary is ambiguous about those 2 names and whether they are the same person ... i think!

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #161 on: April 26, 2015, 04:07:52 pm »

This also makes the case that virtually every other "ensouled" being in the Bakkerverse (which the Inchoroi prove can exist without originating from Earwa) is likely damned. So basically an inconceivable amount of souls in that universe are going to Hell for the simple fact that they did not evolve on Earwa, and thus have no way of even beginning to understand which acts are sins and which are not.

Why would this be the case? The examples of real sin we have from the text (rape, murder and theft, prostitution) are pretty easily known to be sins by humans; what would prevent similar congruities arising on other worlds?
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

Inshallabel

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« Reply #162 on: April 27, 2015, 02:21:08 am »

This also makes the case that virtually every other "ensouled" being in the Bakkerverse (which the Inchoroi prove can exist without originating from Earwa) is likely damned. So basically an inconceivable amount of souls in that universe are going to Hell for the simple fact that they did not evolve on Earwa, and thus have no way of even beginning to understand which acts are sins and which are not.

Why would this be the case? The examples of real sin we have from the text (rape, murder and theft, prostitution) are pretty easily known to be sins by humans; what would prevent similar congruities arising on other worlds?

Different evolution, different physiognomies and genetic systems, might produce different moralities or civilizations.  There's no reason to assume that a species entirely alien to our own (or Earwa's own) biosphere would inherit our sense of morality.  Rape, murder, and theft, as humans might experience it, could be notions entirely alien to a species with different interpretation of sexuality and possession...  Which is something that the Inchoroi seem to be...
"Here" and "Now"
is inevitably rendered
"There" and "Then"

Wilshire

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« Reply #163 on: April 27, 2015, 02:00:31 pm »

This also makes the case that virtually every other "ensouled" being in the Bakkerverse (which the Inchoroi prove can exist without originating from Earwa) is likely damned. So basically an inconceivable amount of souls in that universe are going to Hell for the simple fact that they did not evolve on Earwa, and thus have no way of even beginning to understand which acts are sins and which are not.

Why would this be the case? The examples of real sin we have from the text (rape, murder and theft, prostitution) are pretty easily known to be sins by humans; what would prevent similar congruities arising on other worlds?

Different evolution, different physiognomies and genetic systems, might produce different moralities or civilizations.  There's no reason to assume that a species entirely alien to our own (or Earwa's own) biosphere would inherit our sense of morality.  Rape, murder, and theft, as humans might experience it, could be notions entirely alien to a species with different interpretation of sexuality and possession...  Which is something that the Inchoroi seem to be...

A prevailing theory is that something or someone arbitrarily set the standards for damnation/morality in the Earwaverse, and whatever their/its objective view happens to be, that is what it is.

Thus, regardless of whether the rules make sense, or are fair, entire species are damned. Inchoroi and men (or certain races/faiths/ethnicity) among them.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2015, 02:43:14 am »
In particular, since Bakker likes the psycho-sexual stuff, I'd point out that there are species even on Earth where rape is the reproductive norm. If that's a sin, and something like that has a soul, it's screwed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Earwan metaphysical concept of rape wasn't different than our own anyway. As misogynistic as that world is, I'd imagine they'd laugh at the idea that, say, a husband could rape his wife under any circumstances.