Khellus and the Emissary.

  • 35 Replies
  • 12766 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 06:15:44 pm »
Good call. There's simply too much we don't know to guess about the historical interaction between the Hundred and the Nonmen.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

locke

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2013, 09:53:24 pm »
or the nonmen are well familiar with how the gods mark humans. 

I presume their multi-time sight would show them that Sorweel has been fucked with.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5770
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 12:08:13 am »
or the nonmen are well familiar with how the gods mark humans. 

I presume their multi-time sight would show them that Sorweel has been fucked with.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?
Why is there not a mind=blown emoticon?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 02:51:13 am »
Apologies, I've neglected to upload a new emoticon set. I'll remind myself tomorrow.

In any event, Kellhus didn't fulfill Niom because Moenghus is not his son (unless metaphysical adoption etc).  Perhaps Moe is the enemy and Sorweel is the son?

Hm... Good call!

Lol - I can't wait until Sorweel and Mimara meet.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Ciogli

  • *
  • Momurai
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 11:21:52 pm »
It might be difficult for Kellhuss to read the Nonmen, remember all the trouble he had with Cnauir because of his madness, making his ordinary interactions difficult because he did things for no logical reason. And though the Intact have a logical goal but madness would stalk their every interaction with Kellhuss, making reading them difficult. He may met and interrogated Cleric before giving him to the Skin Eaters, so he may have knowledge of Nonmen's basic facial cues.
The world holds no terrors for me, I stand naked as the falling sword, I am the Terror.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 01:26:25 am »
Kellhus was able to leverage Cnaiur's madness sometimes, neh?

Kellhus is the ultimate method actor. I'd hazard he can figure out how the Nonmen think - it seems obvious he helps Kosoter manage Cleric. He figures out the skin-spies easy enough.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5770
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 03:59:14 am »
Ciogli, I don't know if I agree with that. I seem to recall Kellhus' main issue was that his father tried to manipulate Cnaiur in the same way he tried too. Cnaiur had years to run through the encounter over and over in his mind, and eventually saw through a lot of the deception. In those years he was free of the Dunyain manipulation which allowed him to overcome the lies.
Then, even though he knew exactly who and what Kellhus was, he still couldn't fully evade the son's manipulation.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2013, 09:37:21 am »
Yeah, I hardly think Kellhus has made such a straightforward and serious mistake as screwing the Niom.
Socially, functionally, Moenghus is his son.  Perhaps he wants the Niom to fail though, ldk.

The real question about the Niom is why they didn't return via Quya Chariot?  Why do they have to sneak up on Ishteribinth? They have made ridiculous speed there by teleporting, so how will they explain that, especially if they beat the chariot there.  Plus the ordeal won't have taken Dagliash by the time they get there (and word of that would have to travel too, so why send the kids now if that was the stall on getting a lift?) 

Why did Kell select Sorweel as the 'enemy' - if Kell was fooled by Yatwer's mask then he shouldn't have picked someone so 'totally' converted.  It is interesting that Kell seems to be schooling import pieces on his Benjuka plate against his Dunyain nature.  Esme is important because she knows his true dunyain nature, he entrusts the Empire with her (I suspect because he knows a dunyain (Maitha) must fail against the WLW).  Akka too.  Now Proyas is being shown the truth as well.

It seems that because we no longer have a window into Kellhus' machinations we have kind of forgotten his level of Xanatos Gambit mastery.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Madness

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Conversational Batman
  • Posts: 5224
  • Strength on the Journey - Journey Well
    • View Profile
    • The Second Apocalypse
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2013, 03:14:41 pm »
Yeah, I hardly think Kellhus has made such a straightforward and serious mistake as screwing the Niom.
Socially, functionally, Moenghus is his son.  Perhaps he wants the Niom to fail though, ldk.

The real question about the Niom is why they didn't return via Quya Chariot?  Why do they have to sneak up on Ishteribinth? They have made ridiculous speed there by teleporting, so how will they explain that, especially if they beat the chariot there.  Plus the ordeal won't have taken Dagliash by the time they get there (and word of that would have to travel too, so why send the kids now if that was the stall on getting a lift?) 

Why did Kell select Sorweel as the 'enemy' - if Kell was fooled by Yatwer's mask then he shouldn't have picked someone so 'totally' converted.  It is interesting that Kell seems to be schooling import pieces on his Benjuka plate against his Dunyain nature.  Esme is important because she knows his true dunyain nature, he entrusts the Empire with her (I suspect because he knows a dunyain (Maitha) must fail against the WLW).  Akka too.  Now Proyas is being shown the truth as well.

It seems that because we no longer have a window into Kellhus' machinations we have kind of forgotten his level of Xanatos Gambit mastery.

I don't think Dagliash or Niom need to be fulfilled concurrently. Also, Serwa can only do two or three horizons a day - Metagnostic Cants try her far more than her father (or so she would have Sorweel believe) so I'm sure the Chariot will have no issue beating them. The Nonmen seem very haughty, I can easily see them being like "Oh yeah, and if you want to deal with us, walk the fuck over."

It seems to me that Serwa is only integral to Ishterebinth as a Womb. That is the reason for expediency. Otherwise, she would definitely be useful fighting with the Ordeal against Dagliash.

It could be that Sorweel is being removed from the Plate as an aberration. Or it could be that the Gods and the Nonmen have a date with destiny.

I like the bit about letting knowledge of the Dunyain slip, Curethan. Truth enslaves more than lies.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2013, 07:00:24 am »
I feel like its more important for Kellhus to get Sorweel or Moe to Ishterberinth.

There are a lot more variables to be considered in why those two were sent.

I find the idea that Sorweel's false face will be detected as soon a quya touches him ala Kellhus and the Emissary compelling; perhaps revealing that Kellhus' 'enemy' is no less than an agent of the hundred will be important in swaying the Intact from the consult and planned treachery back to the ordeal?
 
Serwe is simply a daughter, and handily able to use the cants of translocation.  Even if she can bear nonman children (possible but no certainty) it would not save their race.  Frankly, if making half breeds was a tenable or desirable option they would have made a lot more efforts in that direction already.

Otherwise I can't really see 'pride' as a reason to demand three people walk across hundreds of miles of sranc infested wasteland.  That's just stupid. And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5770
  • One of the other conditions of possibility
    • View Profile
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2013, 06:01:04 pm »
I don't remember the conversation about her hiding her sorcerery, so I could be way off base, but maybe she just doesn't want to materialize out of thin air at the front gates of Ishterebinth. That would create a "shoot first ask questions later" scenario that would not be favorable for Kellhus.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Borric

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2013, 07:05:54 pm »
And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range. 

I assumed that was for more practical reasons.
Automated Wards in place etc.

Serwe is simply a daughter, and handily able to use the cants of translocation. 

Whow, thats one bold statement.
 I like it though.

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2013, 01:20:36 am »
Heh, didn't mean it in any sexist manner.  Just that there are no other options -Theliopa is a bit out of reach.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Borque

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2013, 10:16:09 am »
And again, why must Serwe hide her sorcery once they are in a certain range.  I'm quite sure the metagnosis leaves a mark, probably noticably different from the norm.
Those transposition cants would be unknown to the Nonmen, and she (and Kellhus) might not want to show off her full capabilities just yet.

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 10:35:59 am »
Just noting that the thing about her being unwilling to teleport comes from the preview reading.

I feel like the nonmen have to suspect something anyway, either from the speed of their progress or from the quality of her mark or both.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.