Hiding your Voice

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Borque

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« on: November 16, 2013, 02:37:06 pm »
Titirga seems to believe that it's possible to avoid damnation by "hiding his Voice". This is supposedly accomplished by "worshipping the spaces between the Gods". Or at least it's connected. This was taught to Men by the Siqu.

Why has this belief, from what we have seen so far, disappeared? Maybe it was never known among the Anagogics, but at least Mandate Sorcerers should know about - and grasp desperately for - this possible way to avoid damnation.

Theories, please...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:42:49 pm by Borque »

Garet Jax

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 03:14:40 pm »
I am not convinced that it is worshiping the spaces between the gods is how he hides his voice.  I was of the opinion that it was due to his blindness and possible command of the Psukhe.

That being said, if hiding your voice comes from worshiping the spaces between the gods, I think it could be rather simple why the practice (if it ever was one) died off. 

It seems that the 3 Gnostic schools that would have learned about this from the Nonman Tutelage were all wiped out in the First Apocalypse.  The Mangaecca moved to the Incû-Holoinas, and the Mihtrul and the Sohonc were destroyed. 

Tirtiga, who IMO would be the only one who achieved hiding his voice in this manner, "died" almost 1,000 years before Seswatha was born.

Seswatha founded the Mandate (the last Gnostic school of the time) after the First Apocalypse and could have possibly not known about the practice of worshiping the spaces between the gods as a method of avoiding damnation.  Either that or, worshiping the spaces between the gods only grants oblivion, and Seswatha wasn't after oblivion.

edit: I am still attaching the mark/bruise to damnation/oblivion.  Thanks for the clarification.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 03:41:04 pm by Garet Jax »

Borque

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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2013, 03:34:39 pm »
Here is the full quote:

Quote from: The False Sun
“Do you not fear damnation?“

A careful look from the Hero-Mage.

“The Nonmen…” he said evenly. “They have taught us how to hide our Voices. How to bypass the Outside, find Oblivion.”

Eyes like bladders of ink, each reflecting the tripods across their shining curve. The fluting of gill-tissues along the neck. “You worship the spaces between the Gods…”

“Yes.”

A rasp like the screams of faraway children tangled in the wind. Inchoroi laughter. “You are already damned. All of you are already damned.“

“So say you.”

A deep chested rumble. Popping mucous. “So says the Inverse Fire.”

Borque

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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2013, 03:58:43 pm »
Garet - I didn't think to check for posts until after I had posted the quote. I'm apparently quite self-absorbed.

It seems that the 3 Gnostic schools that would have learned about this from the Nonman Tutelage were all wiped out in the First Apocalypse.  The Mangaecca moved to the Incû-Holoinas, and the Mihtrul and the Sohonc were destroyed. 

Tirtiga, who IMO would be the only one who achieved hiding his voice in this manner, "died" almost 1,000 years before Seswatha was born.

Seswatha founded the Mandate (the last Gnostic school of the time) after the First Apocalypse and could have possibly not known about the practice of worshiping the spaces between the gods as a method of avoiding damnation.  Either that or, worshiping the spaces between the gods only grants oblivion, and Seswatha wasn't after oblivion.
But it would seem to be quite crucial information, and not something the Sohonc likely would just forget or don't care about. And that would imply that Ses knew, too.

I see a couple of possibilities:

1) The Sohonc didn't know at the time of Seswatha. Why this would be, I can't say. Maybe they were almost obliterated at some point, and someone never returned that particular book to the Sauglish library.

2) The Sohonc (or the Mandate) knew, but at some point their elite damnation research team has proven the practice ineffective (project de-funded and merged with the Various Odd Nonman Ideas Catalog project). So Ses and the Mandate know but don't really care a lot.

3) The Sohonc knew, but Ses forgot to tell the Mandate, or more interestingly, deliberately chose not to tell the Mandate.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 04:00:28 pm by Borque »

Madness

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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2013, 06:00:39 pm »
Though you lose your soul, you shall gain the world…
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Wilshire

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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 12:35:46 am »
“The Nonmen…” he said evenly. “They have taught us how to hide our Voices. How to bypass the Outside, find Oblivion.”

I read this as unrelated to sorcery... Am I the only one? When you die, you are supposed to 'reach' to the demons that will devour your soul. Reach with your voice. I imagine falling through the void is painful, lots of screaming and yelling etc.
Though if "Voices" is capitalized I guess that this makes less sense.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Borque

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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 01:59:55 pm »
I read this as unrelated to sorcery... Am I the only one? When you die, you are supposed to 'reach' to the demons that will devour your soul. Reach with your voice. I imagine falling through the void is painful, lots of screaming and yelling
I haven't thought of this interpretation myself, but it is possible. Still, it seems like something someone should practice, or at least think of as a possible way to avoid damnation. There is no mention of this in the text.

Madness

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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 02:07:51 pm »
For my ambiguity, I'm going to suggest that it is directly related to scaring the world and earning the mark.

Titirga's cipher is that his mark is different. He's doing something different than other sorcerers to earn a different mark. Marking the blood of the onta and having a mark gets you noticed by the gods - probably immediately but certainly faster and with more clarity than the Gods seem to see those non-Few, who have to be sinful or righteous before they become noticed. Avoiding Damnation by hiding your Voice (sorcerous exercise) is still possible while being a sorcerer.

Anutteral ;)?
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Wilshire

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 03:15:41 pm »
no-utteral.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Madness

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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2013, 03:31:22 pm »
Lol - is that a suggestion or are you just knocking my humour?
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Callan S.

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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2013, 10:48:50 pm »
Analtteral! ;)

Quote
Eyes like bladders of ink, each reflecting the tripods across their shining curve.
Bit off topic, but probably much easier to get an aswer to - what are the tripods?

Borque

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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 09:13:29 am »
Bit off topic, but probably much easier to get an aswer to - what are the tripods?
Quote from: The False Sun
At last they entered the broad circle of the Asinna, the expansive hub of Nogaral. A great rug woven of brushed white grasses softened both the floor and the gloom. Bronze tripods glowered golden, casting yellow petals across the weave. Tablet racks fashioned of black ash loomed about the chamber’s circumference.

Madness

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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 01:09:28 pm »
Thanks, Borque.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 02:41:58 pm »
Lol - is that a suggestion or are you just knocking my humour?
;)
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2013, 08:15:41 pm »
Lol - I shall scar my arm to mark when I last murdered humour.
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