Who attacked the Scarlet Spires and why?

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Somnambulist

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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2014, 04:00:41 pm »
Man, I just read through my post.  So many typos... Damn kindle auto correct is worse than the iPhone.  Sorry about that.
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Wic

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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2014, 04:29:58 pm »
Moe could have easily suspected the Mandate would get involved as soon as word spread that an Anasurimbor has shown up.  Hell, that's the first lead on anything the Mandate has had in 300 years.

Although, I'm not sure when word would have reached Atyersus had Akka not mentioned it.  Meh.

Somnambulist

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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2014, 04:50:22 pm »
Right, and also just remembered Maitha went to Atyersus to collect the Mandate before heading to Shimeh.  Maybe Akka was a happy accident, but I believe delivering the Mandate to Kellhus was always in the plan.
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2014, 01:14:58 am »
Man, I just read through my post.  So many typos... Damn kindle auto correct is worse than the iPhone.  Sorry about that.

Hah, dude, I have the same exact issue (been using my Kindle for web-browsing recently since my desktop has been screwy). I have a Kindle Fire HD, but turning off the auto-correct made a substantial difference for me. Still a pain in the ass though.

Crtha

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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2014, 02:18:17 am »
Lol.  I think Moe would have had a very hard time keeping the Gnosis from Kellhus. 

They have copies of the Sagas in Kian, I am sure.  No reason why Moe would be ignorant of the Celmoman prophecy.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2014, 04:08:07 am »
I suppose Kellhus would have gotten the Gnosis at some point, yeah, but probably not until after the battle. And at that point, I'm not so sure the Inrithi would have won. Were they on the trajectory of victory before Kell showed up? I thought he kind of saved the day. What would he have done if he had to run all those miles back and found his host in shambles... I guess then Maithanet would have eventually showed up with all the Mandati in tow, but that would have looked kind of bad for the Thousand Temples, relying on the Mandate to win their Holy War.
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Crtha

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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2014, 07:06:56 am »
Maitha collecting the Mandate was pursuant to the consult being revealed.  They were bound to join whoever opposed the consult. 
Unimportant whether Fanimry or Inrithism triumphed, as long as the Three Seas ended up united against the consult.
All part of TTT as far as I see it.
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2014, 01:05:05 pm »
I'm just of the thought that Achamian is too much of a variable for the Thousandfold Thought. He's pissed that the of two students he loved teaching, he was forced to put Inrau in a situation where Achamian knew the boy would get killed and he's simply too impressed by Kellhus' intelligence to be rational about the situation.

No real argument on the whole as I was convinced by the letter to Proyas and Maithanet's consolidating the Mandate on route to Shimeh (further evidence to me that Moenghus the Elder's exploration of the Thousandfold Thought extended past the Circumfixion). But more evidence that Moenghus through Maithanet controlled the situation, because Achamian is riddled by indecision caused by the above emotional quandaries and sociocultural flow of information and the Mandate's... laziness conspire against them:

Quote from: TWP, p63, 2005 Canadian paperback
"What," Kellhus had subsequently asked, "will the Mandate do if you tell them?"

"Take you to Atyersus. Confine you. Interrogate you... Now that they know the Consult runs amok, they'll do anything to exercise the semblance of control. For that reason alone, they'd never let you go!"

Quote from: TTT, p11, 2006 Canadian paperback
He narrated Kellhus's inexorable rise to ascendancy in the Holy War, both from what he himself had witnessed and from what he'd subsequently learned through Proyas. Nautzera had heard, apparently through informants near to the Imperial Court, that a man claiming to be a prophet had grown to prominence among the Men of the Tusk, but the name Anasurimbor had become Nasurius by the time it reached Atyersus. They had dismissed it as simply one more fanatic contrivance.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2014, 03:45:27 pm »

Quote from: TTT, p11, 2006 Canadian paperback
He narrated Kellhus's inexorable rise to ascendancy in the Holy War, both from what he himself had witnessed and from what he'd subsequently learned through Proyas. Nautzera had heard, apparently through informants near to the Imperial Court, that a man claiming to be a prophet had grown to prominence among the Men of the Tusk, but the name Anasurimbor had become Nasurius by the time it reached Atyersus. They had dismissed it as simply one more fanatic contrivance.
Missed that bit that I put in bold. I don't know why but I find that terribly amusing. Especially since they freaked out immediately about Miathanet when he seized power, but didn't look twice at Kellhus.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2014, 08:31:44 pm »
Yeah that made me chuckle on my reread.

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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2014, 01:09:04 pm »
Sociocultural skew, gentlemen ;).
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locke

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« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2014, 07:55:53 pm »
(further evidence to me that Moenghus the Elder's exploration of the Thousandfold Thought extended past the Circumfixion).
Um, of course TTT extends past the Circumfixion, that's why Moenghus created it.  As he says, The Probability Trance failed him and could not extend past the Circumfixion, TTT was created/designed/conceived to rectify that situation.

themerchant

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« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2014, 11:14:41 pm »
Right, and also just remembered Maitha went to Atyersus to collect the Mandate before heading to Shimeh.  Maybe Akka was a happy accident, but I believe delivering the Mandate to Kellhus was always in the plan.

That's why i think Somas was made by Moe, that's the thing that allows Maith to be trusted instantly by the Mandate.

What would have happened if Maith turned up and just had to deal with the Mandate without the big reveal? I guess that decides how crucial the unmasking was.


locke

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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2014, 11:27:18 pm »
Right, and also just remembered Maitha went to Atyersus to collect the Mandate before heading to Shimeh.  Maybe Akka was a happy accident, but I believe delivering the Mandate to Kellhus was always in the plan.

That's why i think Somas was made by Moe, that's the thing that allows Maith to be trusted instantly by the Mandate.

What would have happened if Maith turned up and just had to deal with the Mandate without the big reveal? I guess that decides how crucial the unmasking was.

And if the consult had a spy on atyersus wouldn't they want to end the mandate by destroying seswatha's heart?  but if the skin spy was moenghus' he would not, because he wants the skin spy on atyersus to bind the mandate to maithanet effortlessly.

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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2014, 01:19:54 pm »
(further evidence to me that Moenghus the Elder's exploration of the Thousandfold Thought extended past the Circumfixion).
Um, of course TTT extends past the Circumfixion, that's why Moenghus created it.  As he says, The Probability Trance failed him and could not extend past the Circumfixion, TTT was created/designed/conceived to rectify that situation.

They are two parts of the same thing to me.

The Thousandfold Thought is the inevitable unfolding of Earwan circumstance as seen by the Probability Trances of the Dunyain once you take into account variables outside of Ishual. Which I think fits with what you are saying.

But what I am saying is that the Probability Trance did not fail Moenghus where he suggests because he has his servant tell Kellhus that he will grasp the Thousandfold Thought. There is only one path. Who is to say how much of the Thought Moenghus knew?
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