Last time you mentioned Bakker or the Second Apocalypse?

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Davias

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« on: January 08, 2014, 07:55:41 pm »
When was the last time in your real life, you have talked about Bakker, his books, especially the Second Apocalypse?

Here is a little tale from my last weekend:

Four guys, two women, sitting in a brewery pub.

One of the guys likes to talk about literature, strange movies, philosophical problems and the way of life. I must say, his intellect is mostly superior to mine, and he is a little bit of an asshole ( maybe it is my opinion only, because he IS clearly more intelligent than I  ;D  aaahh, mankind are ever deceived... 8) ). But I like him, sometimes, because he has some cool and interesting ideas and thoughts about many things.

Anyway, we two talked about the meaning of extrinsic and intrinsic motivation and how our own actions in the daily life are influenced by either one of the two.
This conversation clearly was the reason, the three other guys and the two women began to complain about us. They wanted a nice, little evening with alot of alcohol and slight talk about their last relationships and some talk about movies, books and mainstream movies.
Ok, when my dialog partner drank his eighth or ninths beer , I finally surrendered to the alienate stares of the two women and switched to their current discussion. About books.
I wasn't too drunk at that moment, but five beers, and flashing thoughts about my love for the Second Apocalypse were enough to threw the shit against the wall.
One of the girls talked about the silly Shades of Grey books. I wasn't to impressed by her statements about it.
She was a little bit pissed by my following comments and asked:"And what literature is YOUR cup of tea?"

"Oh, mostly fantasy and history books."

She had a little twinkle in her eyes. Clearly a touch of triumph. "Oh, Fantasy? Like the Lord of the Rings, or that Hobbit nonsense?"

"In some way...yes. But more about aliens and creatures who would fuck your skull, when it was seperated from your body or raping children and innocents."

Short silence. Frowning. Irritation. A short attempt to say something significant, which I interrupted.
"Oh, that's only the bad guys. There are some good guys too. One is a barbarian, who kills men and children alike and rapes women, clearly one of my favourite characters. The other some sort of monk, who feels no love, who uses and controls other men for his own reasons. Ahh, and a slightly depressed sorceror and a ingrained whore."

More Silence, then:"What? What is this pervert shit you are talking about? Who wants to read about THAT?"

"Oh it is very interesting, you should read it. There is also philosphy in it and some new and fresh ideas. It is EPIC!"

"I didn't want to read fantasy. Most certainly not this shit about rape and aliens. But it seems, some men like to read about killing, rape and about denigrate women."

"But you liked the ridiculous Shades of Grey? Oh, here is a realistic tale about strong and thoughtful women..."

"It isn't about rape. It is about a strange and difficult relationship and the dreams and erotic fantasies of a young and initially naive woman. But you know nothing about women, it seems."

I grabbed my beer and drank it with one gulp. Then ordering another. "Ok, you think so. Then we shoud talk about another topic."

The following topic was about movies. Not a good idea.... :D
Maybe I should accept my fate and continue my search for a woman, strong enough to bear my seed.  :P

Ok, the text is too long and the story a little bit insignificant episode in a whole, but that evening was the last time I talked about Bakker in the public. Maybe I didn't really point to the STRONG works in Bakker's books  ;D but my inner prick demanded it







« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 04:28:19 pm by Davias »

Madness

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 12:44:23 pm »
Hmm...

Usually, Bakker gets mentioned in the context of this forum - which I'm obviously on far too much - or in my borrowing arguments from Bakker's books (which, I guarantee gave me a metaphorical advantage as I've pursured my philosophy degree) and usually begin "well, my favorite author..." ;).

But your story was much better.

I would love, LOVE, Bakker to write some version of Fifty Shades of Grey. I feel like every woman I knew who could read (which was more then I thought to begin with - literacy is down for all gendered identifications ;)), read those books...
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Duskweaver

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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 09:35:12 pm »
Heh. My 66-year-old (and pretty hardcore feminist) mother turned out to enjoy The Second Apocalypse books even more than I did. So I'm thinking the problem is one of presentation more than Bakker's work genuinely being, umm... too spicy for Cthuulhu. ;)

When I wax evangelical about Bakker's writing, I tend to talk about his fascinating and (AFAIK) unique take on the metaphysics of sorcery and gods, as well as his Blind Brain ideas, rather than the rape-alien stuff. But maybe that's because I genuinely want to share the awesome experience of reading Bakker, rather than trying to make myself look all cool and edgy.
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Callan S.

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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 07:12:06 am »
Man, that sales pitch did not go well!

Though it is funny how either they are dismissive, because it's all happy go lucky hobbits and thus ignorable for being lightweight, or it's rape and ignoreable for being heavyweight.

I think you have to have a little respect for your own position - if she just uses fantasy as a social scoring point ("oh, you like silly things! Me more important in playground than u!"), it's not going to work out between you terribly well, is it?

I think the funny thing to have said is "Ah, so if the naive young woman had been a hobbit, then fifty shades would have been silly? Or does the alegorical race involved not matter? Unless of course the reader can't understand a metaphor to save their lives!"


Heh. My 66-year-old (and pretty hardcore feminist) mother turned out to enjoy The Second Apocalypse books even more than I did.
UH! Now you have to talk with her about the book and post about it here as best you can remember the conversation! No buts! :)

Royce

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 07:27:14 am »
Quote
When I wax evangelical about Bakker's writing, I tend to talk about his fascinating and (AFAIK) unique take on the metaphysics of sorcery and gods, as well as his Blind Brain ideas, rather than the rape-alien stuff. But maybe that's because I genuinely want to share the awesome experience of reading Bakker, rather than trying to make myself look all cool and edgy.

You sound cool and edgy by saying that :)

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 12:54:30 pm »
It's 'cause irony is cool and edgy, Royce ;).

I'm with Callan, Duskweaver. If she can't join the forum, then I suggest we do the inaugural SA Podcast and interview her together.
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Royce

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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 03:05:29 pm »
Oh, but irony is so difficult to detect  when you do not know the person, and you can not read his body language when he is speaking:)

An SA podcast sounds awesome by the way :)

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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 07:51:59 pm »
I'd love to figure out how to make it possible, Royce. Maybe a half hour conversation every month or something?

There are plenty of talented people here at SA, who are worth more than just their nerdanels on TSA ;). It'd be interesting to get to know some of the fans, learn from each other.
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Davias

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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 08:18:46 pm »
+1 Callan S.
Quote
"Ah, so if the naive young woman had been a hobbit, then fifty shades would have been silly? Or does the alegorical race involved not matter? Unless of course the reader can't understand a metaphor to save their lives!"

Why I didn't think of that answer at the pub? That would have been a cool way to dominate the circumstances like a real Dunyain. :D

The next time I must capture a whole conversation about the second apocalypse in public on a dictaphone, to analyse it on the next day.
I have a friend, who loves to discuss complicated shit with me and although he doesn't like fantasy very much, he will listen curiously to my explanation of Bakker's books. And he has a cool, big whiteboard in his workroom. There could be some Enlightenment for me.

( By the way, That evening in the brewery pub didn't went well for me after that, healthwise. I ended up with the intelligent, drunken guy a few hours and a few whiskys later at a kitchen table, terrible drunk, loosing a few rounds of poker and discussing some shit about particel physics with him. To demonstrate an example, he drenched some cards with alcohol and tore some cards in many tiny bits of paper ::) .
My friend, the owner of the cards, wasn't too amused, but he knew the guy quite well and has accepted his strange behaviour a long time ago. All in all, it was a funny night. But when I opened my eyes, on the next day, my head burst in a thousand pieces... :-\ )
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 08:27:46 pm by Davias »

Callan S.

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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 11:10:48 pm »
you were the card...

Royce

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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 08:57:58 am »
Quote
I'd love to figure out how to make it possible, Royce. Maybe a half hour conversation every month or something?

There are plenty of talented people here at SA, who are worth more than just their nerdanels on TSA ;). It'd be interesting to get to know some of the fans, learn from each other.

Yes, that would be interesting indeed. Personally I enjoy immensely discussing on this forum, hence my name pops up
almost every day:)

Plenty of talented people here yes, and what I appreciate the most is that my own perspectives are challenged a lot, so
I learn a lot about how to handle that, and to spin around these new perspectives that people bring forth.

Madness

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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2014, 03:24:00 pm »
is that my own perspectives are challenged a lot, so
I learn a lot about how to handle that

+1.

And he has a cool, big whiteboard in his workroom.

Whiteboard, Chalkboard, Smartboard, etc, are all awesome.
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Srancy

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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 12:31:06 am »
I mostly walk door-to-door asking if they have been saved by Kellhus

Callan S.

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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 04:41:46 am »
Slaved? Oh, no, I just read too quickly...

Francis Buck

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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2014, 04:01:55 am »
I would love to participate in a podcast. I'm down 100%. We could also not have it solely be about TSA, but with some flavouring regarding philosophy, science, fantasy genre in general, etc. (of course most of those topics would likely just come up naturally in a TSA conversation regardless).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 04:03:28 am by Francis Buck »