Incu-Holoinas - Is it a large Ciphrang?

  • 6 Replies
  • 2865 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SilentRoamer

  • *
  • The Smiling Knife
  • Great Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 480
    • View Profile
« on: June 09, 2014, 09:03:20 pm »
Crackpot: The Ark is a very powerful and large Ciphrang (comparisons to Living Womb and the Horns.)

Taking this a step further, the Arkphrang could have escaped from the Outside somehow via the Inward. The Inchoroi on board are the souls which the Arkphrang has been collecting when in the Outside - there is no mention of additional Arks which you might expect from a galactic race. The Inchoroi being damned is their natural state - they are already damned, they escape from damnation to damnation. Their Mother has died and she awaits their Souls back in the Outside. The IF is the natural exploration of the technology required to pull the Ark back Inward.

The Ark and the Inchoroi should not exist. They broke the "boundaries of flesh" when the Ark crafted their bodies and placed their Souls in Flesh Automatons for perpetual servitude. Now the Ark is dead and the last remaining Inchoroi were not born before the death of their Mother - they are like lost children.

Maybe something still remains of the Ark, in one of the scenes a Synthese specifically thinks "Golgotterath will not be happy" - interesting phrasing.

Crackpot and I claim no truth but interesting thoughts. Speculations all?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 09:11:31 pm by SilentRoamer »

Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 03:32:05 am »
Interesting.  The No-god could be a means to create a new - living - Ark. 

I've speculated before that Mengedda was the result of a failed attempt to create a new outside/solitary god with the consult as gods (like the hundred) within it, which I think is fairly similar.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

SilentRoamer

  • *
  • The Smiling Knife
  • Great Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 480
    • View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 04:17:47 pm »
Interesting.  The No-god could be a means to create a new - living - Ark. 

I've speculated before that Mengedda was the result of a failed attempt to create a new outside/solitary god with the consult as gods (like the hundred) within it, which I think is fairly similar.

Would you expect Earwa to be pushed out of the Inward or the Outside pulled into Earwa? So this would be like a localised subjective reality, similar to how Ciphrang reside in ever varying levels of subjective reality in the Outside. I wonder if the 144,000 refers to some sort of collected will.

Will = Conformity of reality according to TTT glossary, I like that idea Curethan. Can you elaborate?


Crtha

  • *
  • Moderator Extraordinaire
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Pendulous Fallacy
  • Posts: 772
  • Wizard IRL
    • View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2014, 01:58:17 am »
The no-god would replace the outside, connecting the souls of men with the world.  Thus all men can feel where Mog is (until he enters the ground itself).
The text is replete with examples of how the ground witnesses and remembers - Kellhus even talks to it.

Earwa remains the point of maximal objectivity, but now the Consult  are furnished with power to create their own sub-realities in the new outside rather than burning in damnation.
The 144k are required to power the new outside - extermination of humanity was never really part of the plan, the Scylvendi are proof of that.
Further, the design of Scylvendi culture shows what type of world the consult seeks to produce - no progress and a steady supply of brutalized souls for the neo-gods.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 5763
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2014, 03:03:42 am »
Earwa remains the point of maximal objectivity, but now the Consult  are furnished with power to create their own sub-realities in the new outside rather than burning in damnation.
The 144k are required to power the new outside - extermination of humanity was never really part of the plan, the Scylvendi are proof of that.
Further, the design of Scylvendi culture shows what type of world the consult seeks to produce - no progress and a steady supply of brutalized souls for the neo-gods.

I never know what to make of the Scylvendi. Thats as good of an explanation as I've heard.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MG

  • *
  • The Mouth of Bakker Fans
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Nurse Leweth
  • Posts: 1986
  • PSUKHE ALL THE THINGS!
    • View Profile
    • R. Scott Bakker Fans (on Twitter)
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 09:30:14 pm »
SR, this is a cool idea!  Do you think the Ark in its present form is the corpse of a ciphrang?  The body dispossessed?  If so, then perhaps the No-God is or is an attempt to summon the original spirit to reinhabit the Ark?

Kellhus might be able to help them with that...would they bargain?  Maybe Yatwer is nothing more that spirit of the Ark severed and confused.

geoint

  • *
  • Suthenti
  • *
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 11:37:34 pm »
I never considered the possibility of the ark as a Ciphrang.  I know it was a 'womb' but I had never wondered what kind.  Or rather, I had never labeled it as a specific species.  Obviously, it is deeply connected to all of the Inchoroi, but that it was a particular type is intriguing.  In the past, I kind of imagined it as more of a large biological 'factory' that produced something along the lines of stemcells that were then manipulated with the tekne to create whatever was needed. 

I guess it could itself be a Ciphrang though.  Ill try to remember to pay more attention to parts when the Ark is mentioned in my next read through.  I like this thread
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 11:40:26 pm by geoint »