Fanayal in PoN

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Crtha

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« on: September 04, 2014, 07:20:21 am »
If anyone with digital editions feels like checking I would like to see how much Fanayal is mentioned in the first trilogy.
Might be some foreshadowing.
I know he is commanding Kian cavalry at Shimeh.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 07:33:15 am »
He first shows up commanding a division of the Padirajah's elite heavy cavalry at Mengedda, leading from the front lines, though Skauras had overall command of the entire host.  He meets the Men of the Tusk on the field at last twice, and starting pretty early in the war.

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 04:29:20 am »
I think it's worth noting in the Battle Mengedda that Fanayal "technically" has authority over Skaurus and is his superior.  But he cedes all authority to Skaurus, because Fanayal recognizes that the Sapatishah is the far more incisive and experienced commander.  I think this demonstrates Fanayal's humility and prudence, while still being an extremely adept tactician in his own right.

It's noted that after The Tertae Fields, if it wasn't for Fanayal creating some order during the general rout, there wouldn't have been a Battle at Shimeh because the armies of Kian would've been completely annihilated right then and there.

And I have no doubt, that were it not for Saubon's arrival and Kellhus going super saiyan meta-gnosis, the Kiani would've carried the day at Shimeh due to Fanayal's stratagems.  He also kills Hoga Gothyelk in single combat.  Which shows he's no slouch as far as martial acumen goes.

I'm sure there's other stuff that gives him some characterization that I'm missing.

locke

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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 04:41:13 am »
I think it's worth noting in the Battle Mengedda that Fanayal "technically" has authority over Skaurus and is his superior.  But he cedes all authority to Skaurus, because Fanayal recognizes that the Sapatishah is the far more incisive and experienced commander.  I think this demonstrates Fanayal's humility and prudence, while still being an extremely adept tactician in his own right.

It's noted that after The Tertae Fields, if it wasn't for Fanayal creating some order during the general rout, there wouldn't have been a Battle at Shimeh because the armies of Kian would've been completely annihilated right then and there.

And I have no doubt, that were it not for Saubon's arrival and Kellhus going super saiyan meta-gnosis, the Kiani would've carried the day at Shimeh due to Fanayal's stratagems.  He also kills Hoga Gothyelk in single combat.  Which shows he's no slouch as far as martial acumen goes.

I'm sure there's other stuff that gives him some characterization that I'm missing.
Well that sounds sort of like he was manipulated into it rather than indicating any positive attribute.  It also might be the only selfless thing done by a male in the series so it is instantly suspect by virtue of its unusualness.  Also such behavior is anathema to bakkers worldview and is even more out of place in his grimdarkland

All typ0s courtesy of Samsung.


Crtha

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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 04:57:10 am »
Thanks Hirtius, nice summation.
It also might be the only selfless thing done by a male in the series so it is instantly suspect by virtue of its unusualness.  Also such behavior is anathema to bakkers worldview and is even more out of place in his grimdarkland

I think Xinemus, Proyas, Inrau, Seswatha and even Cnaiur behave in a selfless manner at times.  AE is a bit more bleak.
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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 05:22:19 am »
Yeah, I concur with Crtha and call bullshit on lack of selflessness too.  But, I think you were kind of misinterpreting what I was saying locke.  Fanayal ceding authority to Skaurus for the campaign in Gedea and Shigek is less about selflessness, but much more about "following the shortest past."  Doing what is pragmatic to preserve the nation of Kian, sovereignty of the Solitary God, such and such, etc. etc.

 And because I'm an asshole  ;) " Men, Kellhus had once told her, were like coins: they had two sides. Where one side of them saw, the other side of them was seen" So I ask you locke, who do you think was manipulating Fanayal?  And why do you think he gave command of the Shigek campaign to Skaurus?

I think Madness has articulated this somewhere, that the difficult task of getting a solid read on a set perspective of this series is the Curse of Knowledge that the reader is afflicted with.  How can we empathize or understand what motivates these characters when we ourselves have a such a profoundly totality of understanding that belies compassion?  We are like the Hundred Gods in that sense.  We apprehend the whole, but we are blind in so many other ways.  Anyway, I thought it was funny that Crtha brought up AE as being the bleaker series that lacks selflessness, when for 99.9% of The Great Ordeal it is probably the most self-sacrificing thing they have ever done.  One of the most iconic images of the series, for me, is when Kellhus gives his speech to the Ordeal right before they leave Sakarpus and cross the threshold into the Ancient North.  I'm paraphrasing, but he says something like "There will be blood, there will be sacrifice for you the chosen.  You who have taken up the yoke up the apocalypse.  Verily, you may lose your very lives.  But knows this, though you may die, you will save the world." Spoken without any irony.  Now, since we know Kellhus is Kellhus we suspect everything he says.  But for The Great Ordeal, this is Aragorn marching on the Gates of the Morannon, this is the final battle against the Legions of Mordor and such.  In their minds, there is nothing more selfless, this is the most important thing they've ever done in their lives.  But we as the readers are cursed with knowing the truth!  *shakes fists at the heavens*
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 08:07:25 am by Hirtius/Pansa »

Crtha

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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 09:10:40 am »
Ha, true that.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, I guess.
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MG

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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 11:01:22 am »
I think it's worth noting in the Battle Mengedda that Fanayal "technically" has authority over Skaurus and is his superior.  But he cedes all authority to Skaurus, because Fanayal recognizes that the Sapatishah is the far more incisive and experienced commander.  I think this demonstrates Fanayal's humility and prudence, while still being an extremely adept tactician in his own right.

It's noted that after The Tertae Fields, if it wasn't for Fanayal creating some order during the general rout, there wouldn't have been a Battle at Shimeh because the armies of Kian would've been completely annihilated right then and there.

And I have no doubt, that were it not for Saubon's arrival and Kellhus going super saiyan meta-gnosis, the Kiani would've carried the day at Shimeh due to Fanayal's stratagems.  He also kills Hoga Gothyelk in single combat.  Which shows he's no slouch as far as martial acumen goes.

I'm sure there's other stuff that gives him some characterization that I'm missing.

The odds are stacked against the Holy War pretty bad.  I'm starting to think that they won at Shimeh the way they won at Caraskand--via unseen hand.

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 03:48:52 pm »
I find it so amusing that you immediately gravitate towards divine intervention MG.  It must have been about two years ago, I can't even remember the name or the presenter, but I was listening to a podcast about classical iconic military figures.  Caesar, Alexander, Seleucus, Sulla etc etc.  Anyway, the podcaster was enumerating that despite being brilliant and charismatic and detailed oriented and having the attributes you'd expect from successful military leaders, their main attribute was sheer dumb luck.  He would then enumerate how many times Caesar should have died, from stray arrows at Gergovia, ambushes during Alesia.  And how many times Alexander should have died, from Sacred Band at Chaeronea to stray javelins missing him at Issus. On and on and on.  It just piles up and up and it's absurd.  But the human mind can't process dumb luck when it comes to such profound success, so we attribute someone's success to divine favor.  Or the Whore of Fate for us fools.   I was just talking to my mother about Malcolm Gladwell's new book, and apparently it's all about this, the economic and sociological factors of luck. 

So I'm hesitant to say "Of course! The Holy War was divinely favored the whole time!"  Yet, we know the gods are real, and we also have probably a dozen white-luck warriors running around trying to do different things in the AE series.  So I'll hold my tongue.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 04:10:28 pm »
Yeah. For every Alexander, there's probably a dozen men just as brilliant that died of an infected wound after their first battle.

Ciogli

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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 04:51:53 pm »
I don't know how important Fanayal really is, he seems like a character that is their to bring Meppa and Malowebi to the audience. He is not a viewpoint like Malowebi and Psatma, so he is seen only from a narrative distance to the reader. He will be eclipsed in TUC by the other pair.
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 05:03:13 pm »
@ H/P - lol, i'm on a whole other nernadel train!  i think it was the cish, led by moe that saved the holy war at both battles!

however allow me to *nod jnanic degree* to acknowledge point taken, i think the longer i go without tuc, the more insane the theories will get :)

Crtha

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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 01:09:46 am »
"He has been annointed, but not by whom you think!"
That (paraphrased) declaration from Psatma makes me think he has some kind of real importance.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2014, 12:56:52 pm »
"He has been annointed, but not by whom you think!"
That (paraphrased) declaration from Psatma makes me think he has some kind of real importance.
Who is the obvious anointer, or who is the one we don't think?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Crtha

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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 01:41:01 pm »
Well she's talking to Meppa at the time, so the 'obvious one' is the Solitary God or Fane.

No idea who the one he don't think is because I don't think it too. :p
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.