Crazy Ass Speculation Thread

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2015, 10:37:46 am »
TS - you seem to be coming from the perspective that Akkas original dreams are true and the latter dreams are a lie. What if the reverse is true? What if Achamian is now dreaming real dreams?
I wouldn't go that far on either point but I do think that if Anaxophus had failed to kill the No-God, and the No-God then murdered Anaxophus and Seswatha like what happens in that one particular version of the dream, triggering an inevitable defeat at Mengedda...someone probably would have noticed.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #121 on: March 18, 2015, 11:21:19 am »
I don't think Anoxophus killed the No-God. I always expected the No God had its own aims and goals.

I feel like the Consult just switched it on and it started going wherever it liked - Consult is like - "erm... sit... rollover.... ok ok just go and hoover souls and do what you want".

The Sharmat

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« Reply #122 on: March 18, 2015, 11:34:15 am »
So it's somewhere on vacation in Kutnarmu for the last two thousand years and just doesn't want to be bothered.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #123 on: March 18, 2015, 04:06:07 pm »
I never said the No God wasn't killed - just that I doubt that Anaxophus actually killed it. I mean wouldn't the death of the No God be a pretty important part of Seswatha dreams?

Not necessarily saying the NG is kicking back chilling on vacation but equally I find it unlikely the story told of the NG's "death" holds any truth. I would be less surprised if Seswatha somehow stopped/redirected the NG.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #124 on: March 19, 2015, 08:20:44 pm »
The only version of the dream where the No-God isn't killed has the implication of the No-God's triumph at Mengedda and the death of Seswatha and Anaxophus. Which seems historically implausible.

MG

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« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2015, 02:18:37 am »
From the end of chapter 7 of TDTCB, Xerius new obelisk is coming down the river and his mom says "like an immense sarcophagus"

...

THE NO-GOD'S CARAPACE IS ALREADY IN MOMEMN!!!   JUST WHEN THE GREAT ORDEAL IS SWALLOWED UP INTO THE ARK, MOG WILL RETURN

MG

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« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2015, 02:35:14 am »
More crazy-ass speculation: heron spear was lost when Scylvendi sacked that one city...Scylvendi took spear back, it was the Utemot tribe, Heron Spear passed down from father to son, Cnaiur's dad is killed before he can explain the secret importance of the object to Cnaiur, Cnaiur's dad is buried with Heron Spear, Cnaiur finds Kellhus sitting on the barrow of Cnaiur's father--resting place of the Heron Spear

BWAHAHAHAHA

locke

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« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2015, 03:53:46 am »
Did Anaxophus actually kill the No-God though?

TS - you seem to be coming from the perspective that Akkas original dreams are true and the latter dreams are a lie. What if the reverse is true? What if Achamian is now dreaming real dreams?

I recall a scene where Mimara calls Achamian a prophet of the past? What if this was true in the strictest sense - Akka really is the one showing the true dreams? I also think this most likely to be the case, the reason being the mundane aspects of Seswathas life which are revealing themselves.
That's a bingo.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2015, 12:14:06 pm »
More crazy-ass speculation: heron spear was lost when Scylvendi sacked that one city...Scylvendi took spear back, it was the Utemot tribe, Heron Spear passed down from father to son, Cnaiur's dad is killed before he can explain the secret importance of the object to Cnaiur, Cnaiur's dad is buried with Heron Spear, Cnaiur finds Kellhus sitting on the barrow of Cnaiur's father--resting place of the Heron Spear

BWAHAHAHAHA

That would be hilarious.

That's a bingo.
I think both the old and the new dreams have truth and falsehood in them and there's not a clean cut off.

locke

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« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2015, 02:42:46 am »
New favorite theory from the other board:

Moenghus wanted a Broken Dunyain, because a broken dunyain would be immunized against the inverse fire, and he knew he could not immunize himself against it.  Hence the circumfix.

MG

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« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2015, 04:31:32 am »
New favorite theory from the other board:

Moenghus wanted a Broken Dunyain, because a broken dunyain would be immunized against the inverse fire, and he knew he could not immunize himself against it.  Hence the circumfix.

that's awesome!  i wonder how he knows that the IF is a trap and that he would be destined to look into it if he had tried to unite the 3 seas?  i see it narratively, the audience demands that some hero of the Great Ordeal must enter the Ark and SEE, but i wonder how Moenghus reasoned.  also, i wonder what it is like for Moe - who, purportedly, can see the Outside - how simple sight of the Outside is different from looking into the IF.  obviously the IF is some kind of compulsion mechanism, but i wonder if there is more to it than that.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2015, 12:40:51 am »
Daimotic sorcerers can already more-or-less "see" the Outside without becoming crazy (or sane?) enough to join the Consult and commit the kind of atrocities Shae describes.

It's one of two things in my opinion:

1. The IF is not actually a compulsion device per se, it just happens to have that effect if you want it to. When you look into the IF, you see (and perhaps more importantly, feel) the reality of your own Damnation, and just how ridiculously shitty that is/will be. So if, after experiencing that, the first thing you're accosted by are a group of powerful and dedicated folks whose entire goal is making Damnation not happen, you may be inclined to join up with their cause. It's like taking a dude out to the desert and waiting until he's dying of thirst, then offering him some water. He might still not like you, but he's probably gonna drink the water.

The issue with this is that it only works as a method of compulsion if there seems to be no better alternative. That's key, and I think it's the reason we haven't heard of someone who has seen the IF but didn't join the Consult (I suspect this will end up being Seswatha, but that's another theory, another post).

2. The other option is that it's simply a magical compulsion device meant to force anyone who looks at it to join the Consult. I think this is actually clunkier, since the IF being legitimate explains a lot about the Inchoroi (why are they so driven? how did they know about Damnation in the first place without actually dying?) while still being able to ACT as a compulsion device when used correctly. If the IF really is bullshit, then all that goes out the window.

Wilshire

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« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2015, 01:32:57 am »
If the IF shows you you're own personal hell, that is a substantially different experience than seeing into "the outside". Must less compelling.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Francis Buck

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« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2015, 03:00:13 am »
I did not explain myself properly.

The IF does not necessarily show you "your own personal hell", it simply allows you to experience what death is like if you are Damned. To me the threat of Damnation needs to be extreme, otherwise a lot of the character's motivations and actions are strange and/or nonsensical. The Inverse Fire is literally just a way for a soul to see its "status" in the cosmosphere.

I believe this is also why the Inchoroi have only let Nonmen and/or Sorcerers view the Inverse Fire -- since they're SURE to be Damned. This was the folly of the Inchoroi -- they landed on Earwa believing Nonmen to be the dominant mortal, but in fact men were. This is why the Inchoroi "manipulated" the writing on the Tusk to include Nonmen as Damned -- not because they were trying to destroy them, but because it was actually true. This is where the alliance between Nonmen and Inchoroi truly began. Although all (or most) Nonmen were Damned due to their inferior noospheric value, with Men the situation was far more complex. There's a reason all the humans in the Consult were already sorcerors, as their Damnation was guaranteed.

The whole "intentional compulsion" aspect is ruined, however, if someone happens to look into the IF and see that they're "saved". It discredits the Inchoroi/Consult, and offers an alternative path, of sorts. The quality of that fate (eternal oblivion vs hopefully-eternal paradise) is debatable, of course.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 05:52:01 pm by Francis Buck »

Darzin

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« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2015, 06:16:49 am »
Hmm I wonder what would happen if a Cishaurim looked in it using their snakes?
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