Accurate POV?

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Garet Jax

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« on: November 04, 2014, 12:43:09 pm »
I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts on which character has the most accurate POV in the series so far.


If the interview with Bakker stating that the glossary in TTT has misleading information is true, not even the narrative can be trusted...



Esmenet and Achamian seem to have the most relevant information that turns out to be true, or useful.   My vote is torn between the two.


Esmenet seems to give us insight into more mundane things, but has released the most relevant information so far.


Achamian could have literally every answer we are looking for outside of what Kellhus is up to, but when will he reveal it to us?


Akka & Esmi need to have a flashback scene in the prologue of TUC, where they are drunk at a tavern and they both reveal everything they know. (Maybe some one will even yell "You lose, whore!")


Any thoughts?

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 06:00:33 pm »
i get the feeling that Akka's pov is greatly skewed because of lies Seswatha planted in the heart.  i'm not sure why, but i just get the feeling that the historical Seswatha is quite different from the person that the Mandate dream.

i kind of feel like Bakker's going to use Mimara as an anchor for the other pov's.  she's not just seeing with Yatwer's perspective, she is seeing with the eye of whatever is the Ultimate Deity--the thing she saw inside the chorae's mark in Cil-Aujis.

i think you're definitely right about Esmi--i get a strong vibe that her pov is very 'honest' insofar as it's how the world seems to her

i think Sorweel's pov is pretty honest too, his character seems like it is largely a pov by which Bakker delivers info on other more interesting characters around Sorweel.

i had never thought about the whore in the first Akka chapter being Esmi!  Neat!  is it foreshadowing that she'll lose everything by the end of TUC?

Francis Buck

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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 01:15:03 am »
I agree that Esmi is a good source of mundane info, mainly by virtue of her being intelligent and also not a complete lunatic, nor is she a sorcerer. I'd also agree with Sorweel filling this role to a lesser extent.

Akka's good for a lot of the worldbuilding/history/lore of the world "in-universe", but I'm not sure how reliable he is on a day-to-day level.

My knee-jerk reaction is to say that Mimara is indeed meant to be our closest thing to an "anchor" for other POVs, but given just how loopy objectivity/subjectivity can be in Earwa...well, I don't know.

Proyas seems like a reliably honest POV as well, even despite his piety (or, perhaps, because of it).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 04:07:40 am by Francis Buck »

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 10:12:17 pm »
Im not entirely sure I know what you mean GJ. There is a diffusion between honest PoVs and accurate PoV. Do you want to know which PoV is accurate for the character - as in we see the truth of THEM. Or do you mean that we see the truth of the WORLD through their eyes?

Garet Jax

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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 03:37:26 pm »
Im not entirely sure I know what you mean GJ. There is a diffusion between honest PoVs and accurate PoV. Do you want to know which PoV is accurate for the character - as in we see the truth of THEM. Or do you mean that we see the truth of the WORLD through their eyes?

I meant I am curious to find out whose POV turns out to be accurate about the truth of the WORLD... Facts.


SilentRoamer

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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 08:42:35 pm »
I thought that was what you meant GJ. I feel this was part of the removal of Kellhus PoV - either to shield us from the TRUTH as Kellhus sees it, or to shield us from the LIES he tells the faithful.

I think Akkas PoV is the most likely to give the most insight but I feel like Esmi is the one who shows us a true reflection of the world most consistently.

Wilshire

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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 08:09:43 pm »
I don't think any of the POV's themselves are purposefully deceitful, I just think everything we are given is an accurate portrayal of that individual's thoughts/POV.

I find it very difficult to 'believe' much of what Akka says/thinks, because he spends so much time not thinking/saying it. He, more than most characters, leaves the reader guessing.

On that note then, Serwa would be the most 'honest', as she only had a handful of thoughts in her entire life.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MrGanondorf

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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2014, 08:19:37 pm »
Esmi might be the best candidate for most accurate pov because she has been both trained by and become jaded to Dunyain machinations.

Wilshire

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 03:34:16 pm »
I agree, mostly, that Esmi is probably pretty good. On that note, perhaps Cnaiur was the most accurate.

The problem with both is that they seem so ignorant of the wider world that its difficult to believe they know "the truth". Now, though, Esmi is a pretty learned woman so you might be right.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Blackstone

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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2016, 03:27:34 pm »
I agree with Wilshire that none of the POVs are purposely deceitful, but I'm not sure how to tell which are the most accurate.

I'm a little chapped that some of the info in the glossary is incorrect. Since the glossary isn't actually part of the narrative, it seems like Scott just wanted to change his mind about some of the stuff he put in there.
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MSJ

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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 04:18:25 pm »
Yea, I feel like Akka is a accurate POV, because of the dreams and that he is learnt man. But, as the layer of revelation come to pass, you find that is not the case. I agree with others who have said the dreams are contrived to Seswatha's ends. Is Cnauir the most accurate POV we actually have? Though he Is going batshit insane, he doesn't fall for the folly of Kellhus and other Viramsata throughout the Three Seas. What about Mimara and her Judging Eye? Does it give an accurate translation of damnation? Or, is it skewed by her life experiences? It will be quit a thing when the series is ultimately finished and we find out who and what is the Truth.
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Blackstone

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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2016, 04:25:42 pm »
Yea, I feel like Akka is a accurate POV, because of the dreams and that he is learnt man. But, as the layer of revelation come to pass, you find that is not the case. I agree with others who have said the dreams are contrived to Seswatha's ends. Is Cnauir the most accurate POV we actually have? Though he Is going batshit insane, he doesn't fall for the folly of Kellhus and other Viramsata throughout the Three Seas. What about Mimara and her Judging Eye? Does it give an accurate translation of damnation? Or, is it skewed by her life experiences? It will be quit a thing when the series is ultimately finished and we find out who and what is the Truth.
I'm with you.

I'm not sure about the JE. It seems like the only person she has seen who is not damned is herself. Is damnation that easy to attain? I guess we are talking about a group of scalpers, but surely one of them is a stand up guy.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 04:29:47 pm »
I think each character's POV is accurate to varying degrees though.  Right sometimes, misconstrued at others, or outright wrong sometimes, I think they all run that gamut through the series.  I feel that is what makes it so hard to figure out the "right" of things, since we are included to believe a view front to back, or not at all.  It's much harder to cherry-pick spots, because we can't tell what's a lie, a genuine misconception, or a factual statement really.
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MSJ

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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 04:48:38 pm »
Yea, it one of the many things that I love about TSA. Bakker does a good job with it. It translates well to real life. Everyone believes they know the truth. Everyone thinks what the learn is 100% accurate. But, all of it isn't and as with Mimara, is skewed by our life experiences. We all believe we're telling the truth, but that's not the case is it?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

The Sharmat

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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 05:47:24 am »
The most objectively accurate POV was that Wathi Doll.