Do Sorceries objects work for the non Few?

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SilentRoamer

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« on: November 27, 2014, 08:39:00 pm »
As the title states.

Do Sorceries objects work for the non Few?

Do we have any examples in text of Sorcerous artifacts wielded by the non Few?


dragharrow

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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 06:21:46 pm »
Yes, it is possible to craft sorcerous objects that work for mundane humans but if you want your artifact to be able to take sophisticated inputs than you are probably going to need a sorcerer to wield it.

The whores shell proves that you can create artifacts that will work for normal people. It's simple and it doesn't take any inputs from its user, it doesn't even have an off on switch but it doesn't have to you can just take it off. I see no reason that you couldn't use the same principle on grander artifacts. The false sun for example, It doesn't go off when Titirga puts it down and walks away so you could clearly just have a Mage turn it on and give it to a normal person.

However the times we have seen artifacts that with more sophisticated interfaces be used, it has always required the user to be one of the few. Akka uses the waithu doll to test whether kellhus is one of the few for this reason.

So I guess the question is can you create a non magical interface for your magical item. I would imagine that you could. The waithu doll, once activated, is obviously capable of perceiving the mundane world, so a proxy should be entirely capable of picking up mundane inputs and interpreting them as "commands" for what the artifact is supposed to do.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 07:46:34 pm »
Ah I completely forgot about the whores shell.

With regards to the wathi doll, we don't know whether the soul needed to power it is of the Few or not, so it is entirely possible that its complex input require a soul for power.

Some nice food for thought there.

dragharrow

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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 12:34:07 am »
With regards to the wathi doll, we don't know whether the soul needed to power it is of the Few or not, so it is entirely possible that its complex input require a soul for power.
You mean the soul of the person utilizing the wathi doll, correct? You're saying that in addition to the fact that only one of the few can issue a command to the wathi doll, one of the few might be required to provide it with a power source? Sorry, I just want to make sure I'm reading you right.

It's possible, but I think the evidence suggests that once activated the wathi doll can operate without a external magical power source.

Akka activates the wathi doll when he is in the agonic circle which interrupts sorcery. Whenever he tries to cast a spell the circle zaps him, interrupting the process of the casting. He manages to get quick spell out to activate the wathi doll and give a command and then the agonic circle zaps him preventing him from doing any more magic. The wathi doll than continues to act despite the fact that Akka has been zapped. I think that is the wathi doll was relying on Akka as a source of energy than the agonic circles effects would have severed the tie but I could be wrong because their is a big difference between casting a spell and maintaining it.

I can only think of two times that we are given explicit descriptions of the specific exertion that is required to maintain a casting, both of which happen with the scalpoi in the nonmen mansion. Mimara describes the weight of the flashlight-ball on her mind, and Akka describes the weight of the bar of heaven on his mind. Heres how Akka describes it:
Quote
The Bar of Heaven had burned for quite some time; Achamian could feel the picking toll of maintaining its meaning in the nethers of his soul—like holding a sum in thought for a span of hours
So maintaining a spell requires a certain metal exertion. It's a far cry from casting a spell which requires the mage to process layers of complicated semantics but it is still appears to be a distinct exertion of concentration.

My guess would be that the agonic circle's zap would interrupt that concentration. I guess it's possible that the circle only interrupts the complex mental gymnastics of an actual cant, and not the much lesser exertion required to maintain a spell but I doubt it.

In any case, I don't see why the wathi doll would require energy from a mage. It's definitely possible to create artifacts that don't require constant energy input. Many of them act without a mage as an energy source. Whores shells, the barriers, chorae (ooh that's another example of a magical artifact that works for the non-few for answer to your first question)

Wilshire

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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 01:28:15 am »
I think you misinterpreted SR.

The soul powering the Wathi Doll would be the soul inside of it, since the other way around doesn't make much sense (as you detailed above).

I don't believe a non-Few could interact, in any way, with a sorcerous artifact. The artifact is programed by a Few, and while it can be "left on" as shown above, I don't think a non-Few could do anything meaningful with it.
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SilentRoamer

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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 02:24:11 pm »
That's right Wilshire. I meant the soul used to create the Wathi doll (the sacrifice) was one of the Few. I suspect the Wathi doll would not work without a soul of the Few to power it.

I could be wrong - heck this is Bakker I most probably am wrong!


Wilshire

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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 02:38:58 pm »
That is a tough one. I would say that a non-Few coul dbe used as the Wathi doll's soul.

I would guess that something about the human body/mind/soul interaction rolls up in some to to determine if one can see the Onta. But any unfettered soul would be able to see the Onta.

It would say something very profound about the Soul and the Person it exists in if this was not the case.
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themerchant

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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2014, 08:37:13 pm »
Nimeric blew the world horn (or whatever its name is) although he could have been one of the few as well.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 10:31:08 am »
SR, it's going to be fucking nuts if Kellhus has manufactured some super gear for a select few!  Imagine if Kellhus put together a suit of armor that effectively makes Kayutas a sorcerer--the suit does the spinning rock thing like at the end of TTT and lets Kayutas walk the sky and the special spear that comes with it, shoots gnostic lasers down at the roiling sranc!

elite kidruhil with armored horses that let the horses fly, sheilds that eminate a firery barrier, so that a forward phalanx can just push right into the hoard

Kellhus wouldn't want to show his hand too early if he's got cool shit like this, hence allowing casualties to mount and give the Consult false hope b4 hitting them with the nukes

thinking beyond the end of the Great Ordeal, if there still is civilization, a dunyain magic smith or an eventual team of dunyain smiths could make so many and so powerful sorcerous objects for the nonfew that the result would be an end of the school's monopoly on magic