Bakker's Blind Brain Theory

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ender

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« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2016, 03:25:01 pm »
Experience can't be all though, or can it?  Something about that seems not right to me and yet, I have no idea what...
The major problem with Descartes, which you're pointing if i understand you well enough, is that he ends his hyperbolic doubt with doubt itself. But doubt is still a concept, it is still something that refers to something else (the language you use to express it, you doubt something...) therefore you can never have pure thoughts. Experience is experience of something which you can't get rid of.
As for the BBT, i am currently reading his paper (https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/essay-archive/the-last-magic-show-a-blind-brain-theory-of-the-appearance-of-consciousness/), which is quite "velu" as we would say here. Thx for bringing this
You are the neck of a bottle. The World but drips into your soul. We dwell in the deluge. You come to us as a cataract. You assume you are unitary and alone, when in sooth you are a mob of blind men, crying out words you cannot comprehend in voices you cannot hear.

jamesA01

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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2017, 05:47:31 pm »
IMO experience is precisely the opposite, it's nothing.

our experiences are really technical processes.

we are staggeringly blind to these processes. experiments have already been done where someones brain is accessed without their knowledge and their movements are altered. what happens? the person doesn't even realize.

none of this has been officially publicized but it has leaked among those in the know, even slavoj zizek knows about it.

i'm willing to bet that we just come up with reasons to justify everything we do after the fact and that if you start wirelessly hacking a humans brain (which shouldnt be all that difficult in future since its one machine among others and it's already being done as we speak) the human will arrogantly affirm that he does, in fact, know what he's doing and he's doing it because he CHOOSES TO. show him your machine and he'll keep claiming he chose to move his arm left a milisecond before you typed the move arm left command.

our experience is so goddamn hallucinatory that we'll go along with anything. we have enough trouble explaining ourselves already.

i'm not a solipsist. there is definitely an external reality. but it was not created by a god and it is not altered one bit by our intentionality. we're just a component.



Wilshire

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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2017, 06:56:35 pm »
That seems like a fair claim I suppose, its not like I have any thing to refute you.

Are you saying that the world around us is real, but our experience of it is basically hallucination? Then, how can you be sure that its even there? I'm just don't get how you can claim both.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2017, 02:56:57 am »
Removed by moderators. Please see the Building Better Communities thread for further discussion.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 05:12:12 pm by Wilshire »
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2017, 04:27:36 pm »
IMO experience is precisely the opposite, it's nothing.

our experiences are really technical processes.

we are staggeringly blind to these processes. experiments have already been done where someones brain is accessed without their knowledge and their movements are altered. what happens? the person doesn't even realize.

none of this has been officially publicized but it has leaked among those in the know, even slavoj zizek knows about it.

i'm willing to bet that we just come up with reasons to justify everything we do after the fact and that if you start wirelessly hacking a humans brain (which shouldnt be all that difficult in future since its one machine among others and it's already being done as we speak) the human will arrogantly affirm that he does, in fact, know what he's doing and he's doing it because he CHOOSES TO. show him your machine and he'll keep claiming he chose to move his arm left a milisecond before you typed the move arm left command.

our experience is so goddamn hallucinatory that we'll go along with anything. we have enough trouble explaining ourselves already.

i'm not a solipsist. there is definitely an external reality. but it was not created by a god and it is not altered one bit by our intentionality. we're just a component.
Do you have anything to back up this claim? Note, I agree with many of your points.

Wilshire

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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2017, 05:07:11 pm »
Just FYI, the posts you guys are responding to are from  November 2016 and January 2017 respectively.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 05:14:38 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.