The Slog TDTCB - Part Two: The Emperor [Spoilers]

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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 01:38:58 pm »
I think the Quorum will allow it.

I humbly thank them for their clemency.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2015, 12:42:23 pm »
Chapter 7, as had been noted before, it is mentioned that Istriya is probably already replaced before this, but she almost certainly is now:

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As always, she looked an old whore playing the coquette. But there was something in her expression. She seemed different somehow.

Her change is not just in looks however:

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Istriya had always goaded him, but never had she pressed her banter so close to sedition.

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“I’ve never known you to be impolitic, Mother . . . Only to appear so.”

Not only this, but while i previously thought that Skeaös was already replaced and Istriya would be later, I think it is the reverse:

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But Istriya’s gaze had drifted to the Prime Counsel. “You’ve been awfully silent, Skeaös.”
“It’s not m-my place to speak, Empress.”
“No? But this mad scheme is yours, isn’t it?”
“It’s mine, Mother,” Xerius snapped, irked by her assumption. “The wretch has spent tedious weeks trying to talk me out of it.” Even as he gave breath to these words, he knew he’d blundered.
“Is that so? And why’s that, Skeaös? As much as I despise you and the inordinate influence you have over my son, I’ve always found your thinking sound. What insights have you to shed?”
Skeaös stared at her helplessly, said nothing.
“You fear for your life, don’t you, Skeaös?”

I think it is after this that Skeaös is replaced.  The Consult realizes here that Istriya is not going to be able to guide the Emperor to where they need him to be.  As we'll see in the next chapter, there is a sudden change in how Skeaös acts, but I'll talk about that later.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2015, 03:16:46 pm »
Yea, I believe Istriya has been replaced since weve met her. And, I tend to think your earlier assessment that Skeaös was replaced right before Conphas came back from Kiyuth, to be accurate. From that point on he is no longer in agreement with everything Xerius says and wants. Here in Chapter 7 its evident, because he didn't agree with giving up the Vulgar HW. Why Not? Its what's best for the Empire, Conphas see's the brilliance in it. No, he's a Skin-Spy, and wants nothing short of making it to Shimeh and the Cishaurim. But, as you say, its very evident in the next chapter.

ETA: ahhhhhh, you're right. After reading your quote again, Skeaös was in agreement with Xerius. Xerius was lying about that, never caught that.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 03:21:16 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2015, 05:20:33 pm »
On previous reads I felt that Istriya was replaced only after Skeos was ousted. But I noted as you all did, that every time she shows up it is mentioned in some way or another that she appears different.

Going back to some earlier notes though, it doesn't appear that mhyrr every comes up with her or skeos.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2015, 06:19:10 pm »
Thoughts on this part of the slog:

Lots of good quotes from Cnaiur or his pov parts
"A school Bala! Conphas has brought a school!" - An incredible moment of revelation
"He Kay nowhere, among the dead" - I just like this line
"Understanding rumbled I  with the thunder" - love the imagery of this whole scene, this is a great line though.
Pg 226 "I am your end"... - this speech gave me chills. so good.

Eli is a "subdidact" two years prior to his ascension to grandmaster. A rank of the SS hierarchy I have not noticed.

I might mention this in my other post about potential sons of Moenghus, but I'll note here that conphas is 27 years old (mentioned at the end of this section) and his father is unknown. Cnaiur mentions "29 years ago" is when moenghus passes through his tribe. So about 1 year in the wilderness before he meets the Utemont... that leaves about 15 months of unknown whereabouts before Istriya's half sister is impregnated with Conphas. So there's that.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:39:08 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2015, 06:31:33 pm »
On previous reads I felt that Istriya was replaced only after Skeos was ousted. But I noted as you all did, that every time she shows up it is mentioned in some way or another that she appears different.

Going back to some earlier notes though, it doesn't appear that mhyrr every comes up with her or skeos.

Yeah, the mention of myrrh is missing from both of them the whole time, which it's not clear is just coincidence or purposeful.

One thing is that Skeaös and Istriya's interaction here seems to point at them not being on the same page, which, if they are both skin-spies, they certainly would be.  Textual evidence certainly seems to point to Istriya being the replaced one already, so that leaves Skeaös as the one not yet so.

I might mention this in my other post about potential sons of Moenghus, but I'll note jere that conphas is 27 years old (mentioned at the end of this section) and his father is unknown. Cnaiur mentions "29 years ago" is when moenghus passes through his tribe. So about 1 year in the wilderness before he meets the Utemont... that leaves about 15 months of unknown whereabouts before Istriya's half sister is impregnated with Conphas. So there's that.

I'm not sure I'll bite on that.  My feeling is that Moe went right from the Scylvendi to the Fanim.  If he stopped in Nansur, why would he not have simply infiltrated the Thousand Temples or the Imperial Siak?  IIRC, it's mentioned that Moe just comes out of the desert.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2015, 06:38:31 pm »
I'm just saying g the timeline and missing father line up ;). If Moe has 5 sons, this could be number 4 :P

Also, though it's in the next section, myrrh is mentioned amid the flapping of wings.... another point for skin spy, but the wings...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:41:04 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2015, 11:52:21 am »
Wilshire, right before the "I am your end" speech, which as a Cnaüir fan is the greatest, I noticed something. When Yursalka first spots Cnaüir outside the yaksh.

Quote
Incandescent white cracked the sky, and for an instant , he saw the entire world: the desolate horizon, the sweep
of distant pastures, the surrounding yaksh of his kinsmen, and the lone figure standing not more than a dozen yards away, watching...

While this might be nothing other than descriptive purposes, any other time its been used to describe sorcery. I have to wonder if this is the first time Cnaüir was inhabited by Gilgoal.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2015, 12:55:40 pm »
Just finished chapter 8.

Quote
When several thousand Tydonni who’d contracted his ships defaulted on their payment, he sent them to the island of Pharixas, an old pirate stronghold of King Rauschang of Thunyerus, demanding they storm the island in lieu of monies owed. They did, and with abandon. Thousands of innocents perished. Inrithi innocents.

Not of real interest to the series, but this is no doubt a reference to the real world Fourth Crusade, while the Vulgar Holy War is a reference to the People's Crusade.

More here evidence that Skeaös is now replaced, being that he does not at all tire from the climb of the stairs and also his change of heart on sacrificing the Holy War.

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But this plan of your uncle’s—to deliver a Holy War to its destruction! A Holy War! I fear for my soul, Ikurei Conphas. My soul!”

If we presume that Skeaös is now a skin-spy, I think what it talks about now is not it's soul (we know it has none), but rather it's the Consult's souls at stake.  In fact, Skeaös continues:

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“No. I care nothing for Maithanet—or Shimeh, for that matter . . . You’re young. You wouldn’t understand my motives. The young can never see life for what it is: a knife’s edge, as thin as the breaths that measure it. What gives it depth isn’t memory. I’ve memories enough for ten men, and yet my days are as thin and as shadowy as the greased linen the poor stretch over their windows. No, what gives life depth is the future. Without a future, without a horizon of promise or threat, our lives have no meaning. Only the future is real, Conphas, and unless I make amends to the gods, I’ve no future left.”

I could easily see this as Aurang's words, explaining why the world needs to be closed.  In fact, perhaps they are...

Quote
“It’s not the feast we dispute,” Skeaös replied, “it’s the price! Surely you can see this!”

A very Consult statement here, it would seem to me.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2015, 01:01:07 pm »
H, and right before Skeaös leads him up the stairs and Conphas is trying to get him to succumb to the clutch, Conphas says,

Quote
He stood and looked down on the wizened man. “Lead on, old father.

There are just too many references to the Consult in there. Plus, the fact that Skeaös isn't winded at all, and lies to Conphas. Its pretty clear he is a Skin-Spy now.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2015, 01:42:09 pm »
H, and right before Skeaös leads him up the stairs and Conphas is trying to get him to succumb to the clutch, Conphas says,

Quote
He stood and looked down on the wizened man. “Lead on, old father.

There are just too many references to the Consult in there. Plus, the fact that Skeaös isn't winded at all, and lies to Conphas. Its pretty clear he is a Skin-Spy now.

Yeah, it's just odd that Conphas is saying it there, but reference is reference.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2015, 02:28:33 pm »
I just found it ironic, Conphas calls him old father, and indeed he is a product of the old father's.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

locke

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« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2015, 03:48:40 pm »
Wilshire, right before the "I am your end" speech, which as a Cnaüir fan is the greatest, I noticed something. When Yursalka first spots Cnaüir outside the yaksh.

Quote
Incandescent white cracked the sky, and for an instant , he saw the entire world: the desolate horizon, the sweep
of distant pastures, the surrounding yaksh of his kinsmen, and the lone figure standing not more than a dozen yards away, watching...

While this might be nothing other than descriptive purposes, any other time its been used to describe sorcery. I have to wonder if this is the first time Cnaüir was inhabited by Gilgoal.
No. See above reference to second soul

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« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2015, 04:31:47 pm »
Locke, could you please elaborate? I have no idea what reference your speaking about. No, as in its not Gilgoal inhabiting Cnaüir?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2015, 12:00:46 am »
Locke, could you please elaborate? I have no idea what reference your speaking about. No, as in its not Gilgoal inhabiting Cnaüir?
Whoops I reread the almanac chapter 6 thread as well and got it mixed up with this one.

He could feel it stir within him, his second soul, the one that blotted the sun and painted the earth with blood. Their laughter faltered before his menace. His glare struck even the smirk from their faces.