The Slog TDTCB - Part Two: The Emperor [Spoilers]

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MSJ

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« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2015, 12:41:24 am »
Quick question, it may have been addressed somewhere else but if it has I can't recall it. How does Moe recognize skin-spies? I might be mistaken but I thought the explanation for Kellhus recognizing them is more or less that he physically sees them, that they form a simulacrum of a face that is incongruous with everything he has been taught and that difference betrays them. But how does Moe recognize them with his eyes put out? I wouldn't doubt that he knew Skaeos was a skin-spy from espionage and intellect, but can he recognize a new one? Can he perceive the absence of a soul much the way the Few perceive the bruising of the Onta?
Quick answer is that moe didn't blind himself until the encounter with kellhus

Locke, I agree. He didn't blind his self til he had the passion required to wield the Meta-Psûkhe.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 06:45:27 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

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« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2015, 03:26:57 pm »
is that why his eye sockets still leave a little blood when he wipes his face in TTT?

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« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2015, 03:30:38 pm »
But would the Cishaurim allow him to advance in rank without having been blinded?

He seems to have accessed the Psuhke well before meeting Kellhus also, in sending the dreams, and in his meeting with Xerius.  Not to mention his seeming involvement in the assassination-by-teleportation.  Could he have done with while sighted?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Camlost

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« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2015, 03:59:48 pm »
Quote
The emissary drew back his cowl, pulling it wide over his shoulders... His bald scalp was pale, shockingly so, and his face was dominated by the black sockets beneath his brow. Eyeless faces always unnerved Xerius

Aural

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« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2015, 04:24:07 pm »
That emissary could have been someone else. I think Locke’s theory is that Moënghus learned the Psûkhe without being blinded as a parallel to Kellhus learning the Gnosis without grasping Seswatha’s heart.

Camlost

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« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2015, 07:23:27 pm »
I suppose that's plausible. It seems like a lot of work, but I wouldn't put anything past a Dunyain

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« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2015, 07:42:57 pm »
That emissary could have been someone else. I think Locke’s theory is that Moënghus learned the Psûkhe without being blinded as a parallel to Kellhus learning the Gnosis without grasping Seswatha’s heart.

Well, I would tend to disagree with this as I don't believe that learning the Gnosis is dependent on Grasping the Heart, where-as I do believe that the Psuhke is dependent upon the blinding.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2015, 09:44:17 pm »
It's a huuuuuge stretch imo. No doubt. I see two ways for it to be possible. He either manipulated another into being his Mallahat or as a Dunyain he could do the minor spells without being blinded. I will say when I read that scene, to me, I have the feeling Moe blinded his self right then. To me, everything points to Moe being totally in control and every turn in Kyudea being conditioned.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Aural

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« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2015, 09:54:04 pm »
Well, I would tend to disagree with this as I don't believe that learning the Gnosis is dependent on Grasping the Heart, where-as I do believe that the Psuhke is dependent upon the blinding.

Maybe not learning the Gnosis in general, but having a Mandate schoolman teach it to you is dependent on grasping the heart as far as I can tell. On the other hand, we don’t know that a Dûnyain can’t learn the Psûkhe without getting blinded--or anyone for that matter.

Titan

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« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2016, 01:33:05 am »
It's a huuuuuge stretch imo. No doubt. I see two ways for it to be possible. He either manipulated another into being his Mallahat or as a Dunyain he could do the minor spells without being blinded. I will say when I read that scene, to me, I have the feeling Moe blinded his self right then. To me, everything points to Moe being totally in control and every turn in Kyudea being conditioned.

Upon re-read, it seems pretty obvious to me that Mallahat is Moënghus (why else describe him as pale and with Scylvendi scars?), and that he is at this point already a blind Cishaurim.

And even though he has lost his vision, the snakes allow the Cishaurim to see mostly normally. Or?

MSJ

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« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2016, 02:53:30 am »
It's a huuuuuge stretch imo. No doubt. I see two ways for it to be possible. He either manipulated another into being his Mallahat or as a Dunyain he could do the minor spells without being blinded. I will say when I read that scene, to me, I have the feeling Moe blinded his self right then. To me, everything points to Moe being totally in control and every turn in Kyudea being conditioned.

Upon re-read, it seems pretty obvious to me that Mallahat is Moënghus (why else describe him as pale and with Scylvendi scars?), and that he is at this point already a blind Cishaurim.

And even though he has lost his vision, the snakes allow the Cishaurim to see mostly normally. Or?

Potential TTT and TAE spoilers.
(click to show/hide)

[EDIT] Wilshire - Spoiler tags
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:15:29 pm by Wilshire »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Titan

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« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2016, 04:39:34 am »
It's a huuuuuge stretch imo. No doubt. I see two ways for it to be possible. He either manipulated another into being his Mallahat or as a Dunyain he could do the minor spells without being blinded. I will say when I read that scene, to me, I have the feeling Moe blinded his self right then. To me, everything points to Moe being totally in control and every turn in Kyudea being conditioned.

Upon re-read, it seems pretty obvious to me that Mallahat is Moënghus (why else describe him as pale and with Scylvendi scars?), and that he is at this point already a blind Cishaurim.

And even though he has lost his vision, the snakes allow the Cishaurim to see mostly normally. Or?

Potential TTT and TAE spoilers.
(click to show/hide)

[EDIT] Wilshire - Spoiler tags

Potential TTT and TAE spoilers.
(click to show/hide)

MSJ

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« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2016, 03:17:02 pm »
Wilshire- there are those type of spoilers all throughout the Slog..... We agreed to them when we started it, because it was a re-read.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Madness

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« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2016, 03:30:15 pm »
Wilshire- there are those type of spoilers all throughout the Slog..... We agreed to them when we started it, because it was a re-read.

True say.

Lol - though, it strikes me now that the [Spoilers] in the title should have been at the beginning of thread titles for those looking at the most recent posts...

When there's more time :(.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

Wilshire

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« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2016, 05:53:31 pm »
Wilshire- there are those type of spoilers all throughout the Slog..... We agreed to them when we started it, because it was a re-read.
Ah, I read "The Almanac" and didn't realize it was a slog thread. my bad :)
One of the other conditions of possibility.