The Slog TDTCB - Part Three: The Harlot [Spoilers]

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« on: December 10, 2015, 07:08:43 pm »
The Slog continues.

Boss is away, so we mice may play.  I just finished Chapter 9.

Quote
I survived, Akka. And I did not survive.
Esmenet stooped before the child and astounded her with the gold talent.
“Here,” she said, pressing it into small palms.
So like my daughter.

I never realized the extreme nature of this spoiler.  At first reading, I thought that the child reminded her of Mimara.  Yet, on rereading, the two italicized (they are so in the text as well) lines are really one line.

Also, I think there is the possibility that the smell of myrrh is actually that of the Synthese, considering it is present when Aurang comes to Esme in this chapter, then flying away.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Madness

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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2015, 08:20:21 pm »
The Honourable H.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2015, 08:28:08 pm »
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2015, 12:49:15 pm »
Yeah that interro-rape scene really does point to a synthase. Mainly because of the flapping wings and esmi's physical reaction. She feels much the same way as the skin spy reacts when it is touched by the Old Father later on.

One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2015, 01:03:56 pm »
OK, here's my new pet theory. I believe who visited Esme was not Aurang, but Aurax. The description on the slapping of the wings, he was in glamour. See Aurang could only posses Esme later on in the books. I believe Aurax travelled personally to Esme to find out what Akka exactly knows. Also, I really dont believe we have never seen Aurax before. He lifted his glamour when flying out the window, hence the arid slap of wings, which I dont think would be heard from a Synethse. I dont believe that we wouldn't have seen Aurax yet throughout the books.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:08:51 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2015, 01:13:34 pm »
Indeed, it seems implausible that a skin-spy would bother going out the window.  Not to mention the seeming use of cants of compulsion, much like when Aurang comes to her a second time later.

Well, we have (most probably) seen Aurax though and it's not with the Synthese.  He's the one at the end of WP that is "interrogating" those people and asking "Who are the Dunyain?"

Finished chapter 10 also.  Yet another where I have probably missed something, but I didn't find anything particularly noteworthy.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2015, 01:36:23 pm »
Well, we have (most probably) seen Aurax though and it's not with the Synthese.  He's the one at the end of WP that is "interrogating" those people and asking "Who are the Dunyain?"

Yes, I thought about that too. But with Aurang's body back in Golgoterreath, he was only able to possess Esme, I imagine you'd need a physical form to pull off a glamour, hence Aurax.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 01:44:17 pm »
Well, we have (most probably) seen Aurax though and it's not with the Synthese.  He's the one at the end of WP that is "interrogating" those people and asking "Who are the Dunyain?"

Yes, I thought about that too. But with Aurang's body back in Golgoterreath, he was only able to possess Esme, I imagine you'd need a physical form to pull off a glamour, hence Aurax.

Hmm, yeah, that could be possible, in fact even more plausible than the alternative.  His MO does appear different, and even that interlude later follows the interrogation/rape theme as well.  Good catch.

The more I think of it, yes, Aurax's physical form is winged, so the flapping makes even more sense than the Synthese.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 02:48:28 pm »
Quote
And the Nonman King cried words that sting: “Now to me you must confess, For death above you hovers!” And the Emissary answered ever wary: “We are the race of flesh, We are the race of lovers.”—“ BALLAD OF THE INCHOROI,” ANCIENT KÛNIÜRI FOLK SONG Early Winter, 4110 Year-of-the-Tusk, Sumna

IMHO, this is another clue that its Aurax. Another thing I believe it gives hint to is that the dialogue in chapter 9, is going to be between a Nonman (Esme, who I believe has a drop of it in her blood) and a Inchoroi. These prefaces to each chapter always seem to put them in context or offer clues. Or, as usual, MSJ could just be going down the rabbit hole. ;D
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

locke

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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 10:52:50 pm »
A large gold coin is pretty impractical,  weightwise, for a synthese to be flying around with.

The esme possessed scene in TTT  indicates what happened: the synthese is present, possesses Esme, and uses both magic and their mastery of mundane mechanics of sexual attraction to nearly overcome kellhus with sex.  What likely happened here is the same thing the synthese is present, but has possessed a random high caste male. The synthese then orchestrates the interrorape of esme via possession, as attempted on kellhus.  The synthese does a little bakkake of its own at the climax of the interrorape. Hence black seed and a gold coin and flapping wings exiting the window. Doubtful it's a 12 foot tall alien exiting her window, she's not high caste enough to have windows that big.

Wilshire

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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2015, 01:21:22 am »
Lol. It's a matter of weight to lift ratio ;).
But really, that's a good call. This isn't an rpg, where monsters just drop items and bags of money. A tiny synthase carrying a gold coin does seem impractical.

That said, I think it more likely to have been the same thing that had esmi as whatever it was at the end of WP. Whether that is an actual inchoroi form or a different synthase, I think it was the same thing. Glamor to cover the form.

While yoirs seems like a pretty good explination locke, the one piece that doesn't quite fit is esmi's physical response to the man\glamor\thing. Her "skin felt like water" at his touch really matches the skin spy response later on when the wing tip touches him. To me, this demands that the synthase was there, touching her.

In her state, if it really was just a man under compulsion, and if she didn't  notice a bird filtering around cumming on her , it's entirely plausible it came in and did some feather touching...

For my money, I'll stick with physical manifestation under glamor. It just seems cooler.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 03:30:26 am by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

locke

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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2015, 02:22:12 am »
Similes are basically anagogic sorcery


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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2015, 12:37:46 pm »
Finished chapter 11 this morning.

Quote
Had he seen the bruise of sorcery, he would have thought it a trick, but there was nothing, only a quarrelsome face. He had simply made a mistake.
But how?

A skin-spy that changed it's face once it knew it was detected, confirmed later in the conversation with Aurang and Sarcellus.

Quote
To simply be where the Architect had been! To thrust where he had thrusted. It at once humbled and engorged. To plunge into a furnace stoked by the Old Father!

Quote
“I stand among your makers, and yet the genius of your manufacture still moves me to incredulity.”
“Architect?” the thing called Sarcellus gasped. “Father? You would risk this? What if someone sees your mark?”

Quote
“Has she mentioned her night with me? Told you anything?”
“No. Nothing.”

So, it was Aurang with her that first time as well.

Quote
Roared through what passed for Maëngi’s soul.

Support for the Inverse Fire being the replacement soul of skin-spies?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2015, 04:42:42 pm »
Damnit. "Her night with me". So clearly written.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2015, 08:09:43 pm »
Damnit. "Her night with me". So clearly written.

Yes, I was a bit upset. First, that I didn't remember that. Second, that none of my Nerdanel's ever turn out, damn.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,