The Slog TDTCB - Part Four: The Warrior [Spoilers]

  • 46 Replies
  • 7433 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4889
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2015, 06:51:40 pm »
I dunno, I think kwizats hadirach syndrome is more compelling than the biblical "I choose you".

What fits better with a meaningful world? Intentionally creating a god-like being, or dice rolling?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

locke

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2015, 07:04:59 pm »
Any word on why Serwe would be the chosen one to being with?
Nope, but no one knows why peasant Mary was chosen by God either.  It's better than being the chosen one because of lame genetic "the farm boy is a secret prince " reasons.

Also she may have the judging eye her children were still births.

Well, all could very well be true besides the still births. Her babies were born alive then choked to death, making them blue babies.
What comes after determines what comes before? 

Also Did she hear or see live babies or was that just the story she was told?

Also akka doesn't seem to be a very reliable source about a woman's issue. Especially as mimaras experiences  absolutely discredit akkas third hand vague, poorly recalled and deliberately less-than-forthcoming hearsay.

 Recalls the way male doctors have historically discredited issues of women's health.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:09:32 pm by locke »

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1713
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2015, 07:30:54 pm »
Quote
She described the jealousy of the Gaunum wives, how they had lied to her about her first child, saying that it had been stillborn when Griasa, an old Shigeki slave woman, had watched them strangle it in the kitchens. “Blue babies,” the old woman had whispered in her ear, her voice cracked by an outrage almost too weary to be spoken. “That’s all you’ll ever bear, child .” This, Serwë explained to Kellhus, became the morbid joke shared by all the members of the household, especially among those concubines or slaves proper fortunate enough to be visited by their masters. We bear them blue babies . . . Blue like the priests of Jukan.

Quote
During the sixth month of her pregnancy, Peristus’s wife whispered, “Three months till the funeral, hmm, Serchaa?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4889
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2015, 08:00:30 pm »
Serwe herself doesn't appear to have seen or held her own baby
One of the other conditions of possibility.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 1936
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2015, 08:06:25 pm »
Serwe herself doesn't appear to have seen or held her own baby

Well, her baby being stillborn is plausible, but every baby born by a salve or concubine being stillborn really just isn't.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4889
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2015, 09:27:12 pm »
Of course not. At that point, why bother with that whole story.
Also, I feel like Serwe should know if her baby was alive or not after she birthed it. I could be wrong, as I've no experience in the matter, but I feel like it's obvious if you've got a live one.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

morkypep

  • *
  • Emwama
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2015, 10:27:49 pm »
Why does Kellhus want Serwe so bad ? And are the haloes she sees real or is she just nuts ?

Bolivar

  • *
  • Kijneta
  • ***
  • The Articulate Guy
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2015, 12:06:45 am »
Thoughts on the Warrior:

I'm convinced Kellhus was not sent to kill Moenghus. Cnaiur thinks many times before even meeting Kellhus whether he should use the son to kill the father. And almost the first thing Kellhus says to him is that he's been sent to kill his father. Then the Sranc lie comes up. I'm sure the Dunyain weren't happy and maybe told Kellhus to kill him if need be but otherwise I think they just wanted to oblige him, send him his son, get the dreams over with.  Maybe there's even precedent for Dunyain going out and Conditioning ground, even for others, as Moe's dreams said nothing about dwelling in houses.

locke

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2015, 01:14:25 am »
Thoughts on the Warrior:

I'm convinced Kellhus was not sent to kill Moenghus. Cnaiur thinks many times before even meeting Kellhus whether he should use the son to kill the father. And almost the first thing Kellhus says to him is that he's been sent to kill his father. Then the Sranc lie comes up. I'm sure the Dunyain weren't happy and maybe told Kellhus to kill him if need be but otherwise I think they just wanted to oblige him, send him his son, get the dreams over with.  Maybe there's even precedent for Dunyain going out and Conditioning ground, even for others, as Moe's dreams said nothing about dwelling in houses.
Vast landscapes, histories, contests of faith and culture, all glimpsed in cataracts of detail.

A data dump. But kellhus seems ignorant of all that info. He's aware it happened but did not retain any of it. In spite of his perfect memory


So moe probably uploaded  a massive data to the dunyain dropbox, then they took away kellhus file permissions and sent him out like a time bomb.

It's reasonable to expect that given the data upload, the dunyain all share moenghus knowledge, except kellhus. (If moe's dunyain he shares all data, if he is not dunyain he would share selective data)

As someone once said, maybe what moe needed was a broken dunyain, not an intact.

In other words, kellhus was not sent to kill moe

This is presuming moe is still dunyain and Kell is wrong about their being natural allies of the consult.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:16:32 am by locke »

MSJ

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Yatwer's Baby Daddy
  • Posts: 1713
  • "You killed the wolf"
    • View Profile
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2015, 02:01:31 am »
I'm picking up what you're putting down Locke, and I like it. That makes a lot of sense. As if Moe was sent out to gather intel, because the Dûnyain are not oblivious to the happenings of the world. They serve a purpose. Fits in nicely with Seswatha the manipulator.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Captain Slogger
  • Posts: 782
    • View Profile
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2015, 06:23:30 am »
From TTT

"Scrutiny. Calculation.

"It's not in your interest to deceive me." A stone‐faced pause. "Unless ..."

"Unless," Kellhus said, "I've come to assassinate you, as our Dûnyain brothers have decreed ... Is this your apprehension?"

Scrutiny. Calculation.

You have not the power to overcome me."

"But I do, Father."

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 1936
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2015, 12:02:37 pm »
On the one hand, I have the strongest feelings that while Kellhus is decieving everyone along his way here, he is also deceiving us, the readers.

In this way, I very much doubt what he says of his mission.  It rings to easily of exactly what Cnaiür wants to hear.

Just finished chapter 14.

Quote
He’d suffered so many dreams of Anasûrimbor Celmomas of late, and now this, a waking vision of the world’s ancient end. A Scylvendi!

And yet, only a couple pages later, Akka is presented with the real reason for the dreams, but doesn't put the two together.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Enshoiya
  • Posts: 4889
  • Do you remember the words?!
    • View Profile
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2015, 01:24:24 pm »
I'd like to mention that History is something that has given me trouble on this read. The Dunyain in the beginning scoured all history from Ishual, and later the Praga and Kellhus mention that they repudiate all history in order to grasp the absolute.

If that's true, then Moe sending histories to the Dunyain could have been an extremely taboo thing. Something that, if they truely have shunned history, could have made those polluted with it feel like they could no longer continue their mission, thus mass suicide.

However, in TWP What Came Before, it specifically mentions history or something all dunyain lean about in order to better grab TDTB. Which, to me, makes perfect sense, far more so than ignoring history, but it's wholly inconsistent with what we learn in the first book.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

H

  • *
  • The Zero-Mod
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • The Honourable H
  • Posts: 1936
  • The Original No-God Apologist
    • View Profile
    • The Original No-God Apologist
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2015, 01:39:00 pm »
Well, I think this is what you refer to:

Quote
In the effort to transform themselves into the perfect expression of the Logos, the Dûnyain have bent their entire existence to mastering the irrationalities that determine human thought: history, custom, and passion.

While it's kind of silly to think in these terms, their "mastering" of history is the repudiation of it.  They purposely ignore history, in order to attempt to be a-historical.

I have my doubts that this works though, even in the context of Earwa.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

locke

  • *
  • The Afflicted Few
  • Old Name
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2015, 04:02:18 pm »
Well, I think this is what you refer to:

Quote
In the effort to transform themselves into the perfect expression of the Logos, the Dûnyain have bent their entire existence to mastering the irrationalities that determine human thought: history, custom, and passion.

While it's kind of silly to think in these terms, their "mastering" of history is the repudiation of it.  They purposely ignore history, in order to attempt to be a-historical.

I have my doubts that this works though, even in the context of Earwa.
Well that's a convoluted rationalization.

More likely, kellhus was crafted, raised and trained to believe what he does, but this does not accurately reflect dunyain, hence the contradiction in his belief and the what has come black.