The Slog TDTCB - Part Five: The Holy War [Spoilers]

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Wilshire

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« on: December 15, 2015, 12:35:27 pm »
The first thing that struck me here was on pg 439.
Akka has a dream that is not of the holy war, at least initially. In the dream Inrau cries out from the darkness "They're here, old teacher! In ways you cannot see!"

Could this have actually been inrau's soul seeking Achamian out, trying to warn him?
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Wilshire

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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 04:15:24 pm »
I yous mentions that a corpse is found some 5 years prior that is faceless. Earlier in the chapter Eli mentions Cepherummuni is a recent replacement.

Mentioned earlier but, I belive the corpse coincides woth this replacement.
Also, he is one of the only members of the ruling noble caste not addicted to chanv.

Chapter 17 heading *one always finds that catastrophe and triumph... inevitably turn upon the small, trivial, the nightmarish accidental"
Akka then later dreams of Seswatha and his mundane life. Nightmarish subbing his toe, over and over, all night long....

Pg 515 "Acting beaming being"
The whole world is Viramsata.

Pg 525, kellhus mentions seeing the mark on the nonman but not on skeos.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 05:00:05 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 05:33:04 pm »
Quote
He embraced her— desperately. At first she remained stiff, but when he began sobbing, something within her broke. She relented, relaxed against the press of his arms, breathed deep his smell— myrrh, sweat, and leather. How could this man, so stern, more self-assured than any she had known, weep at striking someone like her? Treacherous. Adulterate. How could he—“I know you love him,” she heard him.

Another myrrh reference....also when Esme and Aurang had their fling myrrh was mentioned. I believe it identifies not only Skin-Spies, but the Tekne.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 06:04:17 pm »
"You are the first, Chigra, and you will be the last" the thing call Skeaos said.....

The last what?

"Esmenet was the wife of the prophet Angeshrael".
How fitting.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 06:11:08 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 06:24:05 pm »
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The thought struck Cnaiür that Dûnyain monks might be even more inhuman than he had thought. What things such as truth and meaning had no meaning for them? What if all they did was move and move, like something reptilian, snaking through circumstance after circumstance, consuming soul after soul for the sake of consumption alone? The thought made his scalp prickle.

Sounds a lot like the No-God, or the 100 warring over souls, no?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 06:30:40 pm »
"You are the first, Chigra, and you will be the last" the thing call Skeaos said.....

The last what?

Not there in my reread yet, but the Celmomian Prophecy has him saying something similar, that I quoted before:

Quote
“They call to me. They say that my end is not the world’s end. That burden, they say, is yours. Yours, Seswatha.”

Is it possible that Seswatha isn't really dead?  Is he hiding in Attrempus?  Which, mind you, means “Tower of Respite.”  Respite for who?  For Seswatha?  Details of how Seswatha died are also curiously absent from the whole story.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015, 08:02:30 am »
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After three hundred years, he, Drusas Achamian, had rediscovered the Consult. After two thousand years , he, Drusas Achamian, had witnessed the return of an Anasûrimbor . Anagkë, the Whore of Fate, had chosen him for these burdens! It wasn’t his place to ask why. Nor could such questions relieve him of his burden.

We know Yatwer has tools in this war, and I've heard Kelmommas could be a tool of one of them (I forget the name). So, is this a tell that Akka is a tool of Anagkë? He constantly, throughout the books remarks how he is a Whore of fate.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015, 11:09:15 am »
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After three hundred years, he, Drusas Achamian, had rediscovered the Consult. After two thousand years , he, Drusas Achamian, had witnessed the return of an Anasûrimbor . Anagkë, the Whore of Fate, had chosen him for these burdens! It wasn’t his place to ask why. Nor could such questions relieve him of his burden.

We know Yatwer has tools in this war, and I've heard Kelmommas could be a tool of one of them (I forget the name). So, is this a tell that Akka is a tool of Anagkë? He constantly, throughout the books remarks how he is a Whore of fate.

Well, I'm willing to concede that Akka is almost certainly a tool, but not of Anagkë.  No, I'd be more willing to bet he's used by Seswatha, or someone else.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2015, 01:16:37 pm »
If Anagke had a favored soul, I'd agree that it is most likely Akka. The sheer volume of ridiculous things that happen to him is... well ridiculous.

Kelmomas -> Ajokli is what you were thinking.

Its hard to say how directly or indirectly the other 100 are involved in earwa, but I still lean towards more indirect. If Akka or anyone else is watched by a god, I doubt there would be much of a change to their life.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 02:02:45 am by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

locke

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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2015, 04:07:18 pm »
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After three hundred years, he, Drusas Achamian, had rediscovered the Consult. After two thousand years , he, Drusas Achamian, had witnessed the return of an Anasûrimbor . Anagkë, the Whore of Fate, had chosen him for these burdens! It wasn’t his place to ask why. Nor could such questions relieve him of his burden.

We know Yatwer has tools in this war, and I've heard Kelmommas could be a tool of one of them (I forget the name). So, is this a tell that Akka is a tool of Anagkë? He constantly, throughout the books remarks how he is a Whore of fate.
I've thought so since the last read.

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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 07:21:59 pm »
Finished chapter 16.

Quote
And yet he still found himself troubled . . . Something odd about his Prime Counsel’s manner.

This is the first mention of Xerius noticing anything odd about Skeaös, which still, to me, points to him being replaced rather recently.

“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015, 01:00:49 pm »
Finished the book, glad to be through, WP will be the longest of our Slog.

EDIT: Nearly forgot this part:

Quote
“Thousands of years ago, when the Dûnyain first found—”
“After the ancient wars?” Kellhus eagerly interrupted. “When we were still refugees?”

So, they do teach young Kellhus at least something of ancient history...

Quote
. . . even though the skin-spies were exposed relatively early in the course of the Holy War, most believed the Cishaurim rather than the Consult to be responsible. This is the problem of all great revelations: their significance so often exceeds the frame of our comprehension. We understand only after, always after. Not simply when it is too late, but precisely because it is too late.
—DRUSAS ACHAMIAN, COMPENDIUM OF THE FIRST HOLY WAR

I found the most interesting thing to be the above, the epigraph of chapter 19.

While I have reservations about the Serwë as a god-maker, yet this chapter begins with her and Kellhus is presenting her with the rhetoric of her "meaning."

But then there is the part with Akka:

Quote
After three hundred years, he, Drusas Achamian, had rediscovered the Consult. After two thousand years, he, Drusas Achamian, had witnessed the return of an Anasûrimbor. Anagkë, the Whore of Fate, had chosen him for these burdens! It wasn’t his place to ask why. Nor could such questions relieve him of his burden.

I am not really on board with Akka as Anagkë's agent.  More like, Seswatha's really.  I've always maintained that the parallel between Seswatha and Akka is somewhat strong.  Gnostic sorcerer, once friend of an Anasûrimbor emperor then estranged, partly by the love of a favored wife.

Quote
“You are the first, Chigra,” Skeaös wheezed—an ambient, horrifying whisper. “And you will be the last . . .”

The first what?  The first to resist the Consult?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 02:19:35 pm by H »
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 03:08:27 pm »
The first to see their true face I believe. Also, I wasn't making the claim that Akka is a tool of Anagke, only if others thought that's what it meant. I agree with you H, I believe Seswatha is pushing him along his path.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 03:11:28 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2015, 04:05:08 pm »
I think it's mentioned in an early section but I can't remember which... anyway, Cnaiur mentions that there are only 2 cities north of the steppe, Sakarpus being one of them. Post PoN this city is actual south of the steppe. So not only is it changed on the map but it's actually mentioned in the text as well as being somewhere different.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2015, 05:32:01 pm »
"You are the first, Chigra, and you will be the last" the thing call Skeaos said.....

The last what?

The first to see their true face I believe.

That'd be my guess, considering the next thing the skin-spy does is try and pop Achamian's grape with its facial limbs. This scene informed much of my Untitled fan-fiction at Bakker's blog.
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