The Slog TWP - Part Two: The Second March [Spoilers]

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Madness

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« on: January 11, 2016, 07:52:54 pm »
As yesterday kicked off the arbitrary second portion (of which, according to one version of Camlost's timeline, TWP only has three parts) and the Slog is only very slowly slogging along, I thought I'd make the next thread, if only to goad others into posting their thoughts.

Cheers, friends.
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MSJ

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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 09:01:19 pm »
Chapter 9, at the very end Kellhus enters the probability trance and this is his revelation. Seems to me he has predicted how to seize control of the Holy War by going on the Circumfix.

Quote
Possible worlds blew through him, fanning and branching into a canopy of glimpses … Nameless Schoolmen climbing a steep, gravelly beach. A nipple pinched between fingers. A gasping climax. A severed head thrust against the burning sun. Apparitions marching out of morning mist. A dead wife. Kellhus exhaled, then breathed deep the bittersweet pinch of cedar, earth, and war. There was revelation.

Even this assumes Cnaüir will kill Sarcellus, and Serwe's death.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 10:41:33 pm »
I will have a much more detailed and elaborate post when the slog reaches TTT, but I found this quote very interesting.

Chapter 9
Quote
It appears,” he said in a fierce voice that wouldn’t carry, “that you aren’t the only casualty of this spy’s sorcery, Martemus … When you kill this Warrior-Prophet, you’ll be avenging many, very many.

Considering that Conphas believes himself a god, or rather to be so much more than everyone, he might be above many in recognizing Viramsata. He isn't fooled by Kellhus and Kellhus recognizes this. Kellhus believes it's his giant ego that keeps him from falling into Kellhus's attempts to control him.  Which is true, but I believe that Conphas's conviction in his self is part of that also.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 12:35:14 pm »
Chapter 9:

Only this part really struck me:

Quote
Nameless Schoolmen climbing a steep, gravelly beach. A nipple pinched between fingers. A gasping climax. A severed head thrust against the burning sun. Apparitions marching out of morning mist.
A dead wife.
Kellhus exhaled, then breathed deep the bittersweet pinch of cedar, earth, and war.
There was revelation.

Some strong forshadowing here.  Thoughts on what each represents?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 01:46:49 pm »
Nipples and climax= Esmenet
Severed head= Cnaüir/Sarcellus
Apparitions out the mist= Inrithi at Caraskand
Dead wife= Serwe on Circumfix
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 02:09:23 pm »
Nipples and climax= Esmenet
Severed head= Cnaüir/Sarcellus
Apparitions out the mist= Inrithi at Caraskand
Dead wife= Serwe on Circumfix

Pretty much in line with that I was thinking.  Except I can't place the Schoolmen, my memory is failing me here...
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 02:10:34 pm »
Cishaurim at battle of Anwurat?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 02:14:43 pm »
Cishaurim at battle of Anwurat?

Ah, yes, not the Cishaurim, but the Scarlet Spires there, ok, got it now...
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Bolivar

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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 03:41:18 pm »
On this reeread, I see those as closer to the time of the second march.

Schoolmen - Eleazarus mentions he was forced to deploy schoolmen at Anwurat to appease Proyas after taking Achamian. The text may have referenced them climbing a beach.

Nipples/Climax
- possibly Serwe with the skinspy, knowing the Consult would inevitably come

Severed Head - I thought Cnaiur/Sarcellus as well but it's mentioned after the Battle of Anwurat, Gotian held Skaurus' head for all to see.

Apparitions
- The Inrithi coming out of the Carathay

Dead wife
- the Circumfix.

Wilshire

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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 04:18:02 pm »
Schoolman/beach - Akka post battle with Ciphrang? Though i dont think that beach was gravelly, and it says men, not man.

Apparitions/Mist - Was there mist on the day of Shimeh? I'd say  mist/dust, Fanim coming out of the walls in Shimeh, or Cish fighting in the air above the city as he mauls them.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

profgrape

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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 05:40:34 pm »
Nice find, MSJ.  I never realized it before, but this more or less shows that Kellhus' probability trance couldn't see past the crucifixion.  Which is what Moe later claims but as with all things Moe, I've always been skeptical.












MSJ

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 09:02:28 pm »
On this reeread, I see those as closer to the time of the second march.

Schoolmen - Eleazarus mentions he was forced to deploy schoolmen at Anwurat to appease Proyas after taking Achamian. The text may have referenced them climbing a beach.

Nipples/Climax
- possibly Serwe with the skinspy, knowing the Consult would inevitably come

Severed Head - I thought Cnaiur/Sarcellus as well but it's mentioned after the Battle of Anwurat, Gotian held Skaurus' head for all to see.

Apparitions
- The Inrithi coming out of the Carathay

Dead wife
- the Circumfix.

I think you hit the nail on the head Bolivar.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 12:18:24 pm »
Just finished chapter 10:

What do you guys think of Serwë laying with Akka.  I think in the first read, I was lured into the idea that it really was a dream.  But it wasn't:

Quote
She flushed at the memory of the sorcerer between her legs, but then reminded herself that it wasn’t Achamian whom she remembered, it was Kellhus …

I think what happened was that Kellhus sent her to Akka and what she sees is Kellhus, because he tells her this would be what she would see:

Quote
“It is you!” she hissed, sobbing, staring desperately into his eyes. “I can see you. I can see!

All of it a plan to walk Akka down the path of relinquishing the Gnosis.  Are we to take it as a coincidence that Kellhus reveals he is one of the Few the very next day?  No, this was calculated, all part of the plan.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:21:33 pm by H »
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 03:22:10 pm »
In a few chapters Esement remarks about Akka sleeping with  Serwe. In the scene you just quoted, Akka thinks Esme is staring at them through his tent. Either she seen it, or Kellhus plants the memory as part of ensaring her, or she comes to believe it when Akka confesses about it. Knowing Kellhus it's a five for one type deal, the Shortest Path and all that.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 04:23:40 pm »
In a few chapters Esement remarks about Akka sleeping with  Serwe. In the scene you just quoted, Akka thinks Esme is staring at them through his tent. Either she seen it, or Kellhus plants the memory as part of ensaring her, or she comes to believe it when Akka confesses about it. Knowing Kellhus it's a five for one type deal, the Shortest Path and all that.

Yeah, it sows doubt and guilt into Akka.  It also puts a seed of doubt into Esmenet's relationship with Akka.  It increases Serwë's devotion to him.  I feel certain that Esmenet did see them.

Kellhus did see past Serwë's death and this is the set up here, the start of the plan that will see Akka lose it all.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira