The Slog TTT - Final March: Chapters 1-3 [Spoilers]

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H

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« on: February 11, 2016, 12:51:40 pm »
And onward though TTT we go.

Notes on Chapter 1:

Quote
After millennia of practising sorcery, the Quya bore a Mark that was far, far deeper than that borne by any Schoolmen—like indigo compared with water. Despite their preternatural beauty, despite the porcelain whiteness of their skin, they seemed blasted, blackened, and withered, a husk of cinders at once animate and extinct. Some, it was said, were so deeply Marked that they couldn’t stand within a length of a Chorae without beginning to salt.

An interesting aside we are given about the deepness of the Mark and Chorae.

Also, this dream about Seswatha on the Wall at Dagliash, has always had me wonder, how did he get away?

Chapter 2:

Quote
Eleäzaras had watched him reach into his chest and pull out his fucking heart!
Some kind of trick … it had to be!

Is this the first time someone actually says flat-out what they saw?

Chapter 3:

Quote
Iyokus screamed the words, but there was a flash of something brighter than lightning. The pure dispensation of force, unmuted by image or interpretation.

An explanation, of sorts, on how the Gnosis' power comes from it's direct application, no need for representational ciphers, it is force, pure and undiluted.

Anyone else find anything of particular note?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 02:06:39 pm by H »
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 01:27:08 pm »
Why yes H., as always I do.

Chapter 1

Quote
You need never kneel in my presence,” he said, waving for Achamian to join him. “You are my friend, Akka. You will always be my friend.

Oh, I just love the irony here.

Chapter 3

Quote
He came to you, didn’t he? The father of the Warrior-Prophet.” Diminutive amusement flickered across the creature’s face. “The Dûnyain."

Now what am I missing here? Did Aurang get this info from the Skin-Spy raping of Serwe? Because I never remember us seeing this bit of information giving to anyone.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

H

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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 01:51:08 pm »
Chapter 3

Quote
He came to you, didn’t he? The father of the Warrior-Prophet.” Diminutive amusement flickered across the creature’s face. “The Dûnyain."

Now what am I missing here? Did Aurang get this info from the Skin-Spy raping of Serwe? Because I never remember us seeing this bit of information giving to anyone.

I was actually thinking the same thing.  My guess is yes, it muse be what she told him when the skin-spy asked her, “And why does he call me Dûnyain?”
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 05:56:39 pm »
In Caraskand, Serwe asks Kellhus for his father's name and is surprised when he replies "Moenghus".  So at that point, Serwe still thinks that Kellhus' father is Aethelarias, king of Atrithau. 

Is Cnaiur the only one who knows the truth of Kellhus' mission?  He mentions Moenghus in his ravings toward the end of TWP -- maybe within earshot of the skin-spy?



Wilshire

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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 08:17:13 pm »
Anyone other than the Dunyain, yeah I think Cnaiur is it.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

H

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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 08:32:35 pm »
In Caraskand, Serwe asks Kellhus for his father's name and is surprised when he replies "Moenghus".  So at that point, Serwe still thinks that Kellhus' father is Aethelarias, king of Atrithau. 

Is Cnaiur the only one who knows the truth of Kellhus' mission?  He mentions Moenghus in his ravings toward the end of TWP -- maybe within earshot of the skin-spy?

Well, Aurang doesn't seem to know Moënghus' name though.  He just refers to him as "The Dûnyain."

I think Aurang must have pieced it together from what they learned from the Serwe encounter.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

locke

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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 08:48:47 pm »


Chapter 3

Quote
He came to you, didn’t he? The father of the Warrior-Prophet.” Diminutive amusement flickered across the creature’s face. “The Dûnyain."

Now what am I missing here? Did Aurang get this info from the Skin-Spy raping of Serwe? Because I never remember us seeing this bit of information giving to anyone.

I was actually thinking the same thing.  My guess is yes, it muse be what she told him when the skin-spy asked her, “And why does he call me Dûnyain?”
"And why does he call me truth?"

So far as the consult was concerned it must have been bizarre to have a scylvendie going around always calling kellhus "the truth"

The revelation they got from serwe was that cnaiurs use was referring to a people/faction/nation/group, not because cnaiur was a believer or had an insight into kellhus spiritually.

MSJ

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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 10:03:59 pm »
Locke, it still doesn't answer how Aurang knew of Moe....
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

profgrape

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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 01:58:26 am »
I went back and read Cnaiur's section as he's heading to the Circumfix -- it's all inner monologue. 

How Aurang worked out that Kellhus' father was involved is a mystery.

Bolivar

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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 07:37:11 pm »
I assume they learned of him from someone who encountered him in the North, since they were tormenting Akssersians long after the Serwe interrogation.

I know it's not Akka's dream but I like to think the scene at Dagliash, Mekeretrig interrogating Seswatha for the Heron Spear is a contrast or perhaps warning Nautzera of Kellhus' impending seduction of Achamian for the Gnosis ("you will always be my friend!"), especially considering Achamian is calling him in part to let Nautzera know he is meeting with Kellhus, who will inevitably ask for it. Its much the same scene, except instead of the Agonies, "he makes us love."


I've also wondered how Seswatha got away and chalked it up to Mekeretrig being insane, and clearly not wanting to do the things he does. But what if Seswatha gave up the location of Ishual? Would be interesting if the dreams were compiled to prepare the Mandate for the coming of the Dunyain, especially with the Celmoman Prophecy featuring so prominently.

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Wilshire

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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 08:01:16 pm »
I know it's not Akka's dream but I like to think the scene at Dagliash, Mekeretrig interrogating Seswatha for the Heron Spear is a contrast or perhaps warning Nautzera of Kellhus' impending seduction of Achamian for the Gnosis ("you will always be my friend!"), especially considering Achamian is calling him in part to let Nautzera know he is meeting with Kellhus, who will inevitably ask for it. Its much the same scene, except instead of the Agonies, "he makes us love."

Thats brilliant.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

themerchant

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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 08:16:06 am »
Serwe knows about Moe, she tells Cnaiur all about it when he tries to take her back after he stabs the skinspy, how Kellhus explains that he beats her to beat himself, for succumbing to Kellhus the same way Cnaiur succumbed to his father etc etc.

I was going to try and find the quote in the book, it's after Cnaiur flees the battle but it's actually in the wiki, i went there to get the chapter headers as i only have kindle copy of book on me)

"But when he finds Serwë, another Kellhus is beating her, demanding information. He surprises the second Kellhus, stabbing him in the shoulder. The man flees, but not before Cnaiür glimpses his face crack open...Cnaiür seizes Serwë, begins dragging her to his camp. She rages at him, tells him that he beats her because she lies with Kellhus the way he had lain with Kellhus’s father. She tries to cut her own throat. "
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 08:26:08 am by themerchant »

MSJ

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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 04:07:04 pm »
Merchant, yes I remember that now. Good catch.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

geoffrobro

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 02:23:35 pm »
In chapter 2 when Cnaiir meets baby Moe and grasps the concept of how the Dunyain see world-born men, it leads me to believe the idea that Ses had a hand in the creation of the Dunyain. He has seen first hand the way nations and men will act even in the face of death. Like the king who hid the heron spear while other nations were destoryed, even with the threat of the No-God, men will be men.
So he at least had a hand in the making of the Dunyain civilization where he was very lucky to find the last Anasûrimbor.
"Wutrim kut mi’puru kamuir!"

Wilshire

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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 01:59:09 pm »
Just started TTT. It seems so much has been forgotten over the past few years. A lot more happens, in way more detail, than I remember.

Why yes H., as always I do.

Chapter 1

Quote
You need never kneel in my presence,” he said, waving for Achamian to join him. “You are my friend, Akka. You will always be my friend.

Oh, I just love the irony here.

Yeah loved this right in the first chapter, and then the last page of the book, "the next time ... you will kneel".

Also, I thought it was interesting that when Akka goes to do his Cants of Calling, he opens his eyes and can see the light his own eyes are casting on the ground. Like looking out through a flashlight ... How bizarre.

During that scene, again we get the "here is everywhere, everywhere is here" commentary, which is strikingly similar to Kellhus' awakening when he finishes the "the logos is without beginning or end" meditation (and the subsequent commentary when he wars for space). There are a lot of connections between sorcery and the dunyain.

It also made me wonder about the Dreams and Seswatha's escape from the wall. The Cants of Calling collapse space into a point, but what of time? The more akka concentrates, the more he feels like he is actually there, in that place of the dreams. Maybe if one concentrates hard enough, or, say, adds another  layer to the Cant, you might physically exist in the past for a brief moment. Long enough to pull the stakes from the arms and legs of the grandmaster of the Sohonc and free him ... yup, timetravel saved Seswatha :P.

And onward though TTT we go.

Notes on Chapter 1:

Quote
After millennia of practising sorcery, the Quya bore a Mark that was far, far deeper than that borne by any Schoolmen—like indigo compared with water. Despite their preternatural beauty, despite the porcelain whiteness of their skin, they seemed blasted, blackened, and withered, a husk of cinders at once animate and extinct. Some, it was said, were so deeply Marked that they couldn’t stand within a length of a Chorae without beginning to salt.

An interesting aside we are given about the deepness of the Mark and Chorae.

It took thousand and thousands of years of working sorcery to have this small reaction (salting at  about 3 feet [or about 1.5 meters] from a chorae). Its doubtful that any human sorcerer would ever achieve this kind of expanded reaction to chorae.
However its still fascinating to me that there is an increase effect at all. Like somehow the bruise permeates far beyond your own body, if deep enough. The fringe edges of your existence, or your soul, actually gets larger with use of sorcery somehow.
One of the other conditions of possibility.