The Slog TJE - Chapters 4-6 [Spoilers]

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MSJ

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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2016, 06:38:58 pm »
That was explained when they was separated, iirc. And if the voice does not sound like one of a n idiot, no? I've thought Sammy  for the longest also,it's just too simple. The text certainly make you think it's Sammy. But why would a dim-wit want to kill people and such? Its hard to explain what I mean here. Sammy's nature does not match up to that of the Voice.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2016, 07:24:34 pm »
If that's the case, and it's not Samarmas's intellect, why did Kel's identical twin turn out to be an idiot?

When they were split, it was into "Beast, Man, and God."

Sammy got the beast end of the stick.  Where did his intellect go?  For all we know, he never had one, him and Kel could have shared one, which would explain why part of why they were so inseparable before the ritual did whatever it did to split them.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Blackstone

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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2016, 07:46:05 pm »
That was explained when they was separated, iirc. And if the voice does not sound like one of a n idiot, no? I've thought Sammy  for the longest also,it's just too simple. The text certainly make you think it's Sammy. But why would a dim-wit want to kill people and such? Its hard to explain what I mean here. Sammy's nature does not match up to that of the Voice.

I don't think I am being clear. The voice in Kel's head does not sound like a dummy, because the part of Sammy's soul/intellect/whatever that would have given him the brilliance of a half Dunyain, was ripped out of him when the twins were separated. Their souls/intellects/whatevers were joined together, the healer slave "healed" them, but in so doing broke them apart like a wishbone. Kell walked away with the bigger piece of the wishbone.
The fact that the voice doesn't sound like a dim-whit lends credence to my argument.
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themerchant

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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2016, 07:53:23 pm »
Kellhus mentions to Serwe that Dunyain have two souls or two sets of eyes. Well Serwe says to Sorweel that her father told her. In case anyone thinks there is a passage with Serwe and Kellhus.

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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2016, 07:53:34 pm »
But Sammy is not a mute without any intellect. He is just lacking in that department. He understands what's going on around him, can make choices for his self, shows emotion. You could very well be right. I just seem to think Kel is being used by someone (a God, Ajokli IMHO). Therefore, what in the world would Sammy be using him for? The Voice has an agenda, whatever that may be. What would be Sammy's agenda, and what makes you think he would have one? I agree with H, that when the healer was doing his thing, it gave an opportunity for an entity to slide in, so to say.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Blackstone

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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2016, 09:17:41 pm »
But Sammy is not a mute without any intellect. He is just lacking in that department. He understands what's going on around him, can make choices for his self, shows emotion. You could very well be right. I just seem to think Kel is being used by someone (a God, Ajokli IMHO). Therefore, what in the world would Sammy be using him for? The Voice has an agenda, whatever that may be. What would be Sammy's agenda, and what makes you think he would have one? I agree with H, that when the healer was doing his thing, it gave an opportunity for an entity to slide in, so to say.

But the agenda in the voice doesn't seem to be that different from Kel's own agenda. The voice never convinces him to do something he doesn't want to do. It reads much more like two brothers talking to each other. My opinion :)
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themerchant

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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2016, 02:18:47 pm »
Just a quck thought, as not started full re-read yet just picking it up and reading a bit at random in the bath.

However i noticed  the Witch in TJE (the one masquerading as a devotee of Yawter) is using analagoic sorcery. Not Gnostic like the Compact. Judging by the spell she casts which is weird.

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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2016, 02:41:03 pm »
Just a quck thought, as not started full re-read yet just picking it up and reading a bit at random in the bath.

However i noticed  the Witch in TJE (the one masquerading as a devotee of Yawter) is using analagoic sorcery. Not Gnostic like the Compact. Judging by the spell she casts which is weird.

Yes, I mentioned that above. I definitely noticed that. It also describes her as improbably young, which would mean she's probably young enough to have joined after they got the gnosis (I'm assuming the Compact is a group of witches that Kellhus got together and said, start a school, and I'll give you the gnosis) so should be a gnostic witch and not an anagogic witch. So to be honest, I am going to assume this was a mistake in the writing.

Do you think there's some significance to it?
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themerchant

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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2016, 04:58:09 pm »
Just a quck thought, as not started full re-read yet just picking it up and reading a bit at random in the bath.

However i noticed  the Witch in TJE (the one masquerading as a devotee of Yawter) is using analagoic sorcery. Not Gnostic like the Compact. Judging by the spell she casts which is weird.

Yes, I mentioned that above. I definitely noticed that. It also describes her as improbably young, which would mean she's probably young enough to have joined after they got the gnosis (I'm assuming the Compact is a group of witches that Kellhus got together and said, start a school, and I'll give you the gnosis) so should be a gnostic witch and not an anagogic witch. So to be honest, I am going to assume this was a mistake in the writing.

Do you think there's some significance to it?

Sorry for duplication. Just so often i read something and then forget any significant thoughts I may have had. So typed it out quick without checking.

Mistake is the most likely option (unfortunately)

Another faction working for Maith and his brothers(we hear about in WLW), as a bit later/earlier the Mother Superior mentions he has known about her for a long time.

Mistake most likely though :D

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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2016, 10:54:39 pm »
Doubt Bakker would make a mistake like this. This would be evidence that she's not one of the Swayal.

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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2016, 10:12:41 am »
Doubt Bakker would make a mistake like this. This would be evidence that she's not one of the Swayal.

Yeah, I mean, we don't know if there are other witches besides the Swayal, presumably there are?  Risking a Gnostic sorcerer seems like a bad idea anyway.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Blackstone

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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2016, 02:55:43 pm »
Just a quck thought, as not started full re-read yet just picking it up and reading a bit at random in the bath.

However i noticed  the Witch in TJE (the one masquerading as a devotee of Yawter) is using analagoic sorcery. Not Gnostic like the Compact. Judging by the spell she casts which is weird.

Yes, I mentioned that above. I definitely noticed that. It also describes her as improbably young, which would mean she's probably young enough to have joined after they got the gnosis (I'm assuming the Compact is a group of witches that Kellhus got together and said, start a school, and I'll give you the gnosis) so should be a gnostic witch and not an anagogic witch. So to be honest, I am going to assume this was a mistake in the writing.

Do you think there's some significance to it?

Sorry for duplication. Just so often i read something and then forget any significant thoughts I may have had. So typed it out quick without checking.

Mistake is the most likely option (unfortunately)

Another faction working for Maith and his brothers(we hear about in WLW), as a bit later/earlier the Mother Superior mentions he has known about her for a long time.

Mistake most likely though :D

No worries at all! I am sure I've done the same. I'm glad someone else thought it was interesting.

Doubt Bakker would make a mistake like this. This would be evidence that she's not one of the Swayal.

Yeah, I mean, we don't know if there are other witches besides the Swayal, presumably there are?  Risking a Gnostic sorcerer seems like a bad idea anyway.

Authors make mistakes all they time. He's a man not a Dunyain. [Edit: For instance, we are told countless times that even getting close to a chorae will salt a Quya, but the captain (carrying a chorae) is constantly standing right next to Cleric muttering in his ear].

Why would they train one of the few as an anagogic witch? They are a limited resource, it would make sense to make them all as powerful as possible.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 03:10:52 pm by Blackstone »
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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2016, 03:31:59 pm »
Doubt Bakker would make a mistake like this. This would be evidence that she's not one of the Swayal.

Yeah, I mean, we don't know if there are other witches besides the Swayal, presumably there are?  Risking a Gnostic sorcerer seems like a bad idea anyway.

Authors make mistakes all they time. He's a man not a Dunyain. [Edit: For instance, we are told countless times that even getting close to a chorae will salt a Quya, but the captain (carrying a chorae) is constantly standing right next to Cleric muttering in his ear].

Why would they train one of the few as an anagogic witch? They are a limited resource, it would make sense to make them all as powerful as possible.

I didn't mean to imply he didn't make a mistake, just pointing out that there is a good deal we don't know.  While it could have just been an author accident, there could be explanations as to why someone would still be training with the Anagogis.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2016, 11:45:50 pm »
lmao what a great quote, for all of us waiting for TGO:

pg102 US 1st edition hardcover
Mimara:
What reservoirs of determination would it take? To spend so long immersed in a task not only bereft of any tangible profit, but without any appreciable measure of progress - how much would it require? Year after year, wresting with the imperceptible, wringing hope out of smoke and half-memory. What depths of conviction? What kind of perseverance?
Certainly not any the sane possess.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 05:54:26 pm by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2016, 03:47:46 am »
He must have smiled writing these words.
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