The Slog TJE - Chapters 10-12 [Spoilers]

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« on: March 18, 2016, 11:09:42 am »
Chapter 10:

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"Aside from skirmishing with Sranc," the Successor-Prince was saying, "Zeüm has had no external enemies since Near Antiquity... the days of the old Aspect-Emperors. In our land, we worship events more than gods.

I wonder where these Sranc come from?  Zeüm is pretty well isolated.  Perhaps though they just live in the northern reaches and have since Antiquity.

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"I have no need of spies, Sorweel," the Prince-Imperial said, snatching the thought from his face. He leaned back and with a gentle laugh added, "My father is a god."

Set up, that we should believe Kellhus sees all, when later, it seems he doesn't?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 11:06:27 am »
Chapter 11:

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The true name of the mountain, he told them, was Aenaratiol.

Smokehorn.

What an odd name, what would that mean?  Were they burning things here?  Bodies?

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"With courage and fell cunning," Achamian said, his face hot in the firelight, "Men made themselves masters of Cil-Aujas. Some Nonmen hid, only to be found in the course of time, by hunger or iron, it mattered not. Others escaped through chutes no mortal man has ever known. Perhaps even now they wander like Cleric, derelict, cursed with the only memories that will not fade, doomed to relive the Fall of Cil-Aujas until the end of days."

This story certainly paints the Nonmen as victims here, yet, we know from later on, it isn't as if they were kind to men at all.

“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 02:45:28 pm »
Chapter 12:

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The sorcerous Wards [Kelmomas] need not worry about.  He could see them easily enough.

I completely missed this the first two times I read TJE -- Kelmomas is of the Few?

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The Shriah of the Thousand Temples was a man who could break necks with ease.

Foreshadowing a book in advance?  Love it!

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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 02:57:41 pm »
Chapter 12:

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The sorcerous Wards [Kelmomas] need not worry about.  He could see them easily enough.

I completely missed this the first two times I read TJE -- Kelmomas is of the Few?

It certainly makes sense.  I mean, aren't all Kellhus' kids actually?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 03:17:41 pm »
Kayutas, no. Serwa, yes. Theli, no. Inrilatas, maybe? The twins, at least Kelmomas.
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
The Theory-Killer

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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 03:37:57 pm »
So, maybe 50%?  That's not a bad number for half-breeds, I'd think.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 04:01:05 pm »
That sort of yield is almost certainly unheard-of.  Otherwise, the Schools would all have breeding programs instead of scouting out recruits.

Dunyain blood is precious, indeed!




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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 04:37:46 pm »
Also from Chapter 12:

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But she squelched her misgivings, stared at the Shriah of the Thousand Temples squarely.  "Skin-spies," she said.  She suddenly found herself dizzy with exhaustion, like a water-bearer balancing one bowl too many. "You think skin-spies did this."
Anasurimbor Maithanet replied with uncharacteristic reluctance. "I find this turn... incalculable."

Seems like Maitha knows Kelmomas was behind the murder already. 

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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 10:49:11 am »
Also from Chapter 12:

Quote
But she squelched her misgivings, stared at the Shriah of the Thousand Temples squarely.  "Skin-spies," she said.  She suddenly found herself dizzy with exhaustion, like a water-bearer balancing one bowl too many. "You think skin-spies did this."
Anasurimbor Maithanet replied with uncharacteristic reluctance. "I find this turn... incalculable."

Seems like Maitha knows Kelmomas was behind the murder already. 

I don't know that he is implying that, I thought it was him saying that this happening was beyond anything he had figured.

So, why does Kel kill the matriarch though?  I had thought before that the voice had told him to, but that actually didn't happen.

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This puzzled the young Prince-Imperial. He stood motionless before the cast door, his hand arrested mid-air...

But she needs me—Mommy! Think of the warm cuddling, the tickles, the kisses on the cheek!

He's the root, the voice replied, and you're but the branch. Remember, the Strength burns brightest in him.

For reasons Kelmomas was entirely unable to fathom, that dropped his hand like lead.

The Strength.

And then after this, he is off, running through all his hiding places and onto the matriarch's trail.  What does she have to do with The Strength?  How does killing her bring Esmenet closer to Kel?  I'm still totally in the dark.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 02:35:36 pm »
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And then after this, he is off, running through all his hiding places and onto the matriarch's trail.  What does she have to do with The Strength?  How does killing her bring Esmenet closer to Kel?  I'm still totally in the dark.

I haven't got this far in my reread but, I always thought that what Kel meant by the Strength was his Dunyain blood. I've always thought it was a simple as that. Of course, itcould refer to Ajokli or whoever the Voice is.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 02:44:22 pm »
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And then after this, he is off, running through all his hiding places and onto the matriarch's trail.  What does she have to do with The Strength?  How does killing her bring Esmenet closer to Kel?  I'm still totally in the dark.

I haven't got this far in my reread but, I always thought that what Kel meant by the Strength was his Dunyain blood. I've always thought it was a simple as that. Of course, itcould refer to Ajokli or whoever the Voice is.

That's what I was thinking too, but that really doesn't bring me to any clarity as to why kill her, or what the voice is really after.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 02:48:47 pm »
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And then after this, he is off, running through all his hiding places and onto the matriarch's trail.  What does she have to do with The Strength?  How does killing her bring Esmenet closer to Kel?  I'm still totally in the dark.

I haven't got this far in my reread but, I always thought that what Kel meant by the Strength was his Dunyain blood. I've always thought it was a simple as that. Of course, itcould refer to Ajokli or whoever the Voice is.

That's what I was thinking too, but that really doesn't bring me to any clarity as to why kill her, or what the voice is really after.

No,  it doesn't. And, I was thinking the same thing when I read profgrape's original post. I was thinking, "How does this benefit Esme? ". I was thinking along your thoughts that the voice was helping Esme, or bringing them closer. The whole Kel plotline is very confusing to me. I have no clue where it's going. I have speculated before that he would kill the WLW though.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 03:24:04 pm »
No,  it doesn't. And, I was thinking the same thing when I read profgrape's original post. I was thinking, "How does this benefit Esme? ". I was thinking along your thoughts that the voice was helping Esme, or bringing them closer. The whole Kel plotline is very confusing to me. I have no clue where it's going. I have speculated before that he would kill the WLW though.

I guess that thinking about the scene more, we have Kel overhearing what is essentially Kellhus manipulating Esmenet (Kel actually remarks about this to himself).  It seems like he is about to confront Kellhus, but the voice tells him that this would be a bad idea, since he has more of the Strength than Kel does.  So, at this point, he goes and kills the matriarch instead.

The only way I can make sense of it is that he believes he is protecting Esmenet by working against Kellhus?  I guess perhaps thinking that if he can ruin all of Kellhus' plans, she would have to turn to Kel as her true confidant?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 03:52:48 pm »
Kel might think he's helping Esme.  But just about everything he does seems designed to weaken her.   Killing the priestess is what ultimately tips the mob against Esme.  More than anything, the voice seems to be pushing Yatwer's agenda -- returning the empire to the disenfranchised.

re: Maitha suspecting Kel, the WLW scene with Inrilatas, Maitha and Kel confirms that he is genuinely in the dark about what's going on.

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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 04:00:30 pm »
So, we can rule out Kellhus as the voice then?
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,