The Slog WLW - Chapter 6 [Spoilers]

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MSJ

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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 11:15:41 pm »
I'm gonna go back and find it. You might be correct in that Cleric was standing over him and I believe I read it the same way many times before. But, combined with Cleric remembering, it just feels to me that there is more here.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 11:56:37 am »
I'm gonna go back and find it. You might be correct in that Cleric was standing over him and I believe I read it the same way many times before. But, combined with Cleric remembering, it just feels to me that there is more here.

While I agree that there is something to Cleric remembering her, I did take that part to mean that Cleric was sort of asking him and that brought it into the dream.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

MSJ

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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2016, 12:43:24 pm »
I'm gonna go back and find it. You might be correct in that Cleric was standing over him and I believe I read it the same way many times before. But, combined with Cleric remembering, it just feels to me that there is more here.

While I agree that there is something to Cleric remembering her, I did take that part to mean that Cleric was sort of asking him and that brought it into the dream.

Yea, I understand where you and Blackstone are coming from. But it would also be a great way to insert a clue. Because, I've read it exactly the same way and thought the same thing many times. Wouldn't that be Bakkerish, to insert where our thoughts would confirm, "Nah, he's just waking from a dream is all."? Seems like he would.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 12:45:32 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Bolivar

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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2016, 08:38:52 pm »
Quote
  Achamian could feel it in his bones—catch glimpses of it in the eyes of the others. Mimara especially. He had watched a human head hammered into a wineskin, and he had felt nothing more than … curiosity?
  It was the Qirri. It had to be. The medicine seemed to numb their conscience as much as it quickened their limbs and stretched their wind. Even as Achamian felt himself becoming closer to Mimara, he found himself caring less for the surviving Skin Eaters and not at all for the wretched Hags.

Given that Qirri grants vitality and numbs the conscience, I assume the core substance is what allowed the Inchoroi to live so long and have no qualms with unfathomable torture, and is also what they administered to the Cunoroi during the womb plague. So cremation of a body that's been treated with it brings out the pure substance, like getting resin out of marijuana. Perhaps the Apophagia will have this effect on the Ordeal - allowing them to overcome the vast multitudes of Sranc but losing all remaining humanity and compassion.

Quote
  “He means that he’s not a … a self … in the way you and I are selves. Now go to sleep.”
  “But how is that possible?”
  “Because of memory. Memory is what binds us to what we are. Go to sleep.”
  “What do you mean? How can somebody not be what they are? That makes no sense.”

Interesting to tie memory to self, since these books essentially ask whether self hood is an illusion. Could memory have something to do with the No-God's confusion?

Quote
  “So you trusted him. Kelmomas, I mean.”
  “Trusted?” she cried with open incredulity. “He was a child! He adored me—to the point of annoyance!” She fixed him with a vexed look, as if to say, Enough, old man …“He was the reason I ran away to find you, in fact.”

Thought this was interesting, maybe something happened to make Kelmomas turn on Mimara? Achamian believed when they first met that she was sent by Kellhus, whether she knows it or not.

Quote
No. She will not speak what cannot be heard. Soma would have to remain her secret, at least for the immediate future. She needs to discover more before going to the Wizard …

It's interesting that The Slog is arguably a closer parallel to the First Holy War than the Ordeal is. Sermons from Cleric instead of Kellhus. Keeping knowledge of the Consult away from Achamian.

Quote
  “She’s pregnant. You are certain of this?”
  “The stench is unmistakable.” Another moment of bird-hesitation, as if each thought had to be untangled … It was no small matter planting a soul so mighty into a skull the size of an eggshell.
  “Then she cannot be harmed. All the prophecies must be respected, the false as much as the true.”
  “Yes, Old Father. I anticipated this, which is why I … refrained.”

Seems like the prophecy turns on her being pregnant rather than who she is or anything else.

Assuming the replacement was made at Marrow, it's interesting that Achamian and the Consult both show up there at the same time.

Blackstone

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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2016, 09:06:33 pm »
Yeah, I have been wondering about the prophecy, and specifically the "false as much as the true" part. Why honor prophecies that they know are false? Maybe it's some sort of pantomime that plays into a larger game. Maybe the Celmomian Prophecy is falsified in some way.

I think Kelmomas sent her away so he could have Esmi all to himself.
Honor the Niom? Niom is my middle name.

Bolivar

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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2016, 07:59:53 pm »


Yeah, I have been wondering about the prophecy, and specifically the "false as much as the true" part. Why honor prophecies that they know are false? Maybe it's some sort of pantomime that plays into a larger game.

This is one of the hanging threads that aggravate me because it feels like we should know what he's referring to, at least the pregnancy prophecy, if not the collection of prophecies he refers to. Although can we take this as a hint that whatever it is, this is one of the false ones? Otherwise, why mention that they have to be respected?

They probably have to keep up the false ones because the Inchoroi are engineering Three Seas religious dogma, at the very least the Tusk and most likely Inrithism as well. If the falsity of one prophecy is uncovered, the rest would be in jeopardy as well.

Quote
Maybe the Celmomian Prophecy is falsified in some way.

Wouldn't surprise me, since Celmomas claimed he heard these things from Nau-Cayuti, who strongly seems to have been the No-God. It would be a pretty big bombshell if this is confirmed!

Quote
I think Kelmomas sent her away so he could have Esmi all to himself.

Sounds like it. It's strange though that she claims he adored her to the point of annoyance - sounds similar to his obsession with Esmi. I wonder if he really did like her and there was some event that changed this, made him see Mimara as a competitor and compelled him to drive her away. Imagine if we get a flashback to Kellhus planting the idea, and he really has been moving all of this.

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« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2016, 10:08:51 am »
Quote
Maybe the Celmomian Prophecy is falsified in some way.

Wouldn't surprise me, since Celmomas claimed he heard these things from Nau-Cayuti, who strongly seems to have been the No-God. It would be a pretty big bombshell if this is confirmed!

Well, I am pretty sure that Seswatha is the only one to have heard the Phrophecy, so it would be easy for him to have contrived it.

Quote
I think Kelmomas sent her away so he could have Esmi all to himself.

Sounds like it. It's strange though that she claims he adored her to the point of annoyance - sounds similar to his obsession with Esmi. I wonder if he really did like her and there was some event that changed this, made him see Mimara as a competitor and compelled him to drive her away. Imagine if we get a flashback to Kellhus planting the idea, and he really has been moving all of this.

It could also be that the voice realized that Mimara had the Judging Eye and that it would complicate what it was up to.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Blackstone

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« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 03:19:34 pm »


Yeah, I have been wondering about the prophecy, and specifically the "false as much as the true" part. Why honor prophecies that they know are false? Maybe it's some sort of pantomime that plays into a larger game.

This is one of the hanging threads that aggravate me because it feels like we should know what he's referring to, at least the pregnancy prophecy, if not the collection of prophecies he refers to. Although can we take this as a hint that whatever it is, this is one of the false ones? Otherwise, why mention that they have to be respected?

They probably have to keep up the false ones because the Inchoroi are engineering Three Seas religious dogma, at the very least the Tusk and most likely Inrithism as well. If the falsity of one prophecy is uncovered, the rest would be in jeopardy as well.

Quote
Maybe the Celmomian Prophecy is falsified in some way.

Wouldn't surprise me, since Celmomas claimed he heard these things from Nau-Cayuti, who strongly seems to have been the No-God. It would be a pretty big bombshell if this is confirmed!

Quote
I think Kelmomas sent her away so he could have Esmi all to himself.

Sounds like it. It's strange though that she claims he adored her to the point of annoyance - sounds similar to his obsession with Esmi. I wonder if he really did like her and there was some event that changed this, made him see Mimara as a competitor and compelled him to drive her away. Imagine if we get a flashback to Kellhus planting the idea, and he really has been moving all of this.
I assumed that the adoration was just part of his manipulation. A person would be much more likely to listen to the poison of someone they think is on their side.
Honor the Niom? Niom is my middle name.

Bolivar

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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2016, 04:03:42 pm »
^ I think you're right Blackstone. Just read the uprising chapter and he reflects that Theliopa is the only one he has any fondness for.

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