The Slog WLW - Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

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H

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« on: April 14, 2016, 11:34:16 am »
Chapter 9:

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The Dread Ark. Min-Uroikas. He now dreamed the experiences of some other soul, a captive of the Consult, shuffling to his doom in the belly of wicked Golgotterath.

I am thinking that these dreams are indeed probably from Nau-Cayûti's perspective.

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He shudders with silent laughter. "Sometimes souls get mixed up. Sometimes the dead bounce! Sometimes old men awaken behind the eyes of babes! Sometimes wolves..."

I wonder if he is right in this?  Does he mean that Kosoter is actually someone else?

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"Found him like a coin in the dirt!"
"But where? How?"
"After we took Carythusal, when they disbanded the Eastern Zaudunyani... they sent us north to Hûnoreal, he-he!"
"Sent you? Who sent you?"
"The Ministrate. The Holies. Stack skinnies, they said. Haul the bales and keep the gold—they don't care about gold, the Holies. Just stay on the southeastern marches of Galeoth, they said. Nowhere else? No. No. Just there..."

Interesting.  What was Cleric doing there though, of all places?  It's not coincidence though, that is for certain.  Perhaps he was drawn to Akka as well, somehow?

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"Your Chorae," it says with her voice. "Give it to me and I can save you."
What? She clasps the pouch where it hangs between her breasts.
"No! No more games! Tell me how!"

This is the part that Bolivar had mentioned earlier.  Indeed, the skin-spy changed gear and now wants Cleric dead.  I do think that it is to keep them all from reaching the Library though.

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"I remember coming down from high mountains, and treating with Mannish Kings..."
He sits cross-legged, his forearms extended across his knees, his head hanging from his shoulders.
"I remember seducing wives... healing infant princes..."

Healing?  Through sorcery?  We've never seen that before.  He could just mean with medicine though, during the Tutelage perhaps.

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"You..." the flawless face said. "You remind me... of someone... I think..."

Perhaps his wife?  Or one of his human concubines?

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"Ashes..." she almost whispered. "Ashes from the pyre."
Something in this stirred him, as if she had kicked a long-gutted fire and discovered coals—deep burning coals.
"Ashes? Who?"
He slowed, allowing her to outrun the sun's glare. He blinked at the immobility of her expression.
"Cû'jara Cinmoi... I think..."

I had totally missed this before.  It is probably true too.  Perhaps this is why, if the Qirri and the Chanv are actually the same thing, their effects are only somewhat similar.  The power level of the one burned is proportional to strength of Qirri.
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

Blackstone

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 04:15:28 pm »
Perhaps Cleric was there because of Cil-Aujus. That was my thought. It makes me wonder how may mansions still exist but are deserted. We've only seen two thus far.

I had assumed he meant healing through superior Non-man medicine.

I'll admit, there is a part of me that takes a lot in these books at face value. I assumed demons were real, because they were talked about and we had seen other "fantasy" creatures. I assumed gods were not real, because I assume the same in real life and the religions of Earwa seemed analogous to religions in real life. It isn't until about 100 or so pages into TJE that we see proof that a god exists. So, ok, gods are real to some degree. That being said, I assume the Kosoter is just a normal guy who is both brutal and experienced in the ways of violence. I chalk a lot of the passages about something more looking out from his eyes as hyperbole. The fact that he was killed so easily, and the "mortal afterall" comment cements this in my mind.
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MSJ

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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2016, 08:57:52 pm »
Blackstone, it's why I look for little clues that upon first read I took at face value. You know Bakker and BBT, psychology and how he likes to take preconceived notions and turn them on their head. I feel that yea, some things in the books can be taking at face value, but a good deal has to be examined for alternative meanings. Like the Ishual dream and Mimara, I could very well be wrong, I don't think so though. While it might not be the connection I presented, it could very well be another. Honestly, I think we can take very little at face value with these books.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2016, 09:56:29 pm »
Blackstone, it's why I look for little clues that upon first read I took at face value. You know Bakker and BBT, psychology and how he likes to take preconceived notions and turn them on their head. I feel that yea, some things in the books can be taking at face value, but a good deal has to be examined for alternative meanings. Like the Ishual dream and Mimara, I could very well be wrong, I don't think so though. While it might not be the connection I presented, it could very well be another. Honestly, I think we can take very little at face value with these books.
I do see what you're saying, but once a character dies, I have to assume they're dead. But you know you and I disagree on these things ;D
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Bolivar

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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 12:22:46 am »
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“Who?”she gasps. Suddenly his hand is all that exists. Heavy with power, gentle with love. Her eyes track its flying path to his hip, to the rune-stitched pouch …

“Taste …”he murmurs in tones of distant thunder. “Taste and see.”

"Taste and See" is one of the most prominent Communion hymns in the Catholic Church. The Dispensation was always an obvious analogue but it's interesting to find the little phrases he borrows to enhance the scriptural tone. And here they literally are taking in someone's corporeal body.

I'm not sure where I fall on Kosoter. Given Sarl's account of all the arrows missing and Kellhus trusting him sith this, I'm kinda leaning towards MSJ on this one.

Also, was Soma's orders to spy rescinded after speaking with the Synthese. He tries to turn Mimara against Cleric by telling her he's poisoning them, tells her to kill the Captain, and asks for her Chorae. Maybe he wanted to kill Achamian instead. I just wonder if this suggests he wasn't sent to spy on either the Captain or Cleric, since they never specify who the target was. Maybe it's Sarl? That would bolster the theory he's the Traveler and a Dunyain/Judge but I think he's being honest at this point that he's just an Eastern Zaudunyani.

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Blackstone

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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 02:31:10 pm »
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“Who?”she gasps. Suddenly his hand is all that exists. Heavy with power, gentle with love. Her eyes track its flying path to his hip, to the rune-stitched pouch …

“Taste …”he murmurs in tones of distant thunder. “Taste and see.”

"Taste and See" is one of the most prominent Communion hymns in the Catholic Church. The Dispensation was always an obvious analogue but it's interesting to find the little phrases he borrows to enhance the scriptural tone. And here they literally are taking in someone's corporeal body.

I'm not sure where I fall on Kosoter. Given Sarl's account of all the arrows missing and Kellhus trusting him sith this, I'm kinda leaning towards MSJ on this one.

Also, was Soma's orders to spy rescinded after speaking with the Synthese. He tries to turn Mimara against Cleric by telling her he's poisoning them, tells her to kill the Captain, and asks for her Chorae. Maybe he wanted to kill Achamian instead. I just wonder if this suggests he wasn't sent to spy on either the Captain or Cleric, since they never specify who the target was. Maybe it's Sarl? That would bolster the theory he's the Traveler and a Dunyain/Judge but I think he's being honest at this point that he's just an Eastern Zaudunyani.

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I reread the Traveler scene, and I think Sarl, Cleric, and the Captain are present when the Traveler shows up. I'm of the opinion that Soma was keeping an eye on the last Non-man king. After Mimara and Akka show up, Aurang realizes they are fulfilling a prophecy and changes the plans.

Ha ha. I didn't even notice the taste and see bit, but I do remember that song from when I used to go to church.
Honor the Niom? Niom is my middle name.