[TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi

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Madness

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« on: May 15, 2016, 06:20:00 pm »
There are thoughts a-brewing.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 04:45:31 pm by Madness »
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H

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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2016, 11:58:05 am »
Cryptic statement is cryptic.

There was also that cryptic quote from Scott about how Malowebi was his new favorite character.  I think interesting things will come and will probably be a rather interesting POV, if we get it.  I mean, there has to be a Zeumi POV, right?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 12:17:14 am »
As per a number of other threads, my guesses so far (no foreknowledge of authorial intent):

- Malowebi's doom is to "Watch."
- Malowebi's literal head might get a POV.
- Ciphrang-Malowebi may be experienced by a new Outside Zeumi POV, though at this point in the narrative, Bakker might just go for gold and do a Ciphrang-Malowebi POV.
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profgrape

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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 06:26:49 pm »
As we're discussing our favorite Zeumi sorcerer, did anyone else come away with the thought that the Mbimaya cant he uses included an Inutteral?  I can't recall the specific wording but it was something like "secret words" that went along with what he was chanting.

Blackstone

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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 07:19:51 pm »
As we're discussing our favorite Zeumi sorcerer, did anyone else come away with the thought that the Mbimaya cant he uses included an Inutteral?  I can't recall the specific wording but it was something like "secret words" that went along with what he was chanting.
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 07:37:48 pm »
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.

Indeed, that is how it is worded.  However, in a sense, isn't the chalice, as a fetish, something of an inutteral?
“I am a warrior of ages, Anasûrimbor . . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury.” -Cet’ingira

profgrape

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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 07:40:52 pm »
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.

Indeed, that is how it is worded.  However, in a sense, isn't the chalice, as a fetish, something of an inutteral?

In the sense that it helps to fix meaning in place, definitely.   

Blackstone, thanks for the quote, I love the way that's phrased!

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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 07:48:10 pm »
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.

Indeed, that is how it is worded.  However, in a sense, isn't the chalice, as a fetish, something of an inutteral?

In the sense that it helps to fix meaning in place, definitely.   

Blackstone, thanks for the quote, I love the way that's phrased!
No problem!

Is the fetish itself a magical artifact? Would it carry a stain?
Honor the Niom? Niom is my middle name.

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 03:26:17 am »
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.

Indeed, that is how it is worded.  However, in a sense, isn't the chalice, as a fetish, something of an inutteral?

In the sense that it helps to fix meaning in place, definitely.   

Blackstone, thanks for the quote, I love the way that's phrased!
No problem!

Is the fetish itself a magical artifact? Would it carry a stain?

Yeah, Malowebi's sorcery is interesting. And I think that Kellhus is actually more intrigued by Malowebi's Ward than he is Meppa - though we had another thread regarding this where I feel like I've posted the same thoughts.

I believe I mentioned to H, I think that somehow Malowebi's sorcery doesn't Damn him by his use. That was my wild guess, anyhow.
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Blackstone

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 02:42:37 pm »
I believe it was that he chanted and at the same time thought against his chanting.

Indeed, that is how it is worded.  However, in a sense, isn't the chalice, as a fetish, something of an inutteral?

In the sense that it helps to fix meaning in place, definitely.   

Blackstone, thanks for the quote, I love the way that's phrased!
No problem!

Is the fetish itself a magical artifact? Would it carry a stain?

Yeah, Malowebi's sorcery is interesting. And I think that Kellhus is actually more intrigued by Malowebi's Ward than he is Meppa - though we had another thread regarding this where I feel like I've posted the same thoughts.

Agreed! He seems to be showing quite a bit of curiosity about the whole thing and seems relatively unconcerned about the actual battle.
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2016, 02:46:32 pm »
As per a number of other threads, my guesses so far (no foreknowledge of authorial intent):

- Malowebi's doom is to "Watch."
- Malowebi's literal head might get a POV.
- Ciphrang-Malowebi may be experienced by a new Outside Zeumi POV, though at this point in the narrative, Bakker might just go for gold and do a Ciphrang-Malowebi POV.

Oooh, that's right. When Malowebi asks Pstama about his fate, she says it's to watch. Nice catch. I do love the idea that he is the head on the pole behind him (Kellhus).
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Somnambulist

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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2016, 02:57:30 pm »
It's possible, since there's a lot of 'time-jumps' in the book, that 'the head on the pole' could be Malowebi's.
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 02:31:04 am »
So, Kellhus's sword has indeed been ensorcelled, right? How else does he cut of Malowebi's head and manage to keep him alive? So Malowebi is destined to watch. Watch what exactly? When reading and Pstama said that was his destiny, I figured he would just switch sides to Kellhus and document the SA, like Akka did the First Holy War. Not the case. The head on a pole behind you is the best explanation I've heard so far. Or, he's just gonna be some dread standard that Kellhus keep with him at all times. I don't see that though, too easy, too cheap, to be something Bakker would do. I think you guys have hit the nail on the head with the head on a pole behind you.

So, Zuem is gonna come right over to Kellhus now, I would imagine. I figure in seeing Zuem sending ships to aid the Ordeal, as others have suggested. So, after the Ciphrang goes to Zuem to end the line of Zsoronga's family, do you think we'll see it go after Zsoronga himself? Interestingly enough, we didn't see him at all. And remember, he has Sorweel's chorae, and I have to believe that it will come into play at some point. Has to.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 02:46:39 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 03:00:59 am »
I was having similar thoughts today.  Zsoronga is somewhat indebted to Sorweel since he 'shamed' him.  Sorweel is quickly coming to believe in the war against the Consult, so he may pressure Zsoronga to put the might of Zeum into the struggle.  That will be the Second Great Ordeal (or whatever it will be called).  The Second Investiture.  Not sure how long that would take, though.  Zeum is a singular country, and the Satakhan may hold great power over his people, or he may not.  It could be months to years before Zeum marches/sails or whatever.  I wonder how long the original Ordeal can siege Golgotterath for.
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 02:53:45 pm »
So, Kellhus's sword has indeed been ensorcelled, right? How else does he cut of Malowebi's head and manage to keep him alive? So Malowebi is destined to watch. Watch what exactly? When reading and Pstama said that was his destiny, I figured he would just switch sides to Kellhus and document the SA, like Akka did the First Holy War. Not the case. The head on a pole behind you is the best explanation I've heard so far. Or, he's just gonna be some dread standard that Kellhus keep with him at all times. I don't see that though, too easy, too cheap, to be something Bakker would do. I think you guys have hit the nail on the head with the head on a pole behind you.

So, Zuem is gonna come right over to Kellhus now, I would imagine. I figure in seeing Zuem sending ships to aid the Ordeal, as others have suggested. So, after the Ciphrang goes to Zuem to end the line of Zsoronga's family, do you think we'll see it go after Zsoronga himself? Interestingly enough, we didn't see him at all. And remember, he has Sorweel's chorae, and I have to believe that it will come into play at some point. Has to.
I don't think it's ensorcelled. I think this is the original sword he has always carried, in which case, it is Dunyain steel and the Dunyain had no knowledge of sorcery. I read the whole thing as something to do with the soul sticking with the body for a little while after death. It's really his soul that is seeing the transformation.

As far as the head on the pole, Malowebi is as good an explanation as any I have heard (and we have seen that time is note necessarily a set thing in Earwa). I can't see him heading up to Golgotterath to go after Zsoronga, but maybe he will. If anything could make it through the sranc-infested wilderness alone, it's an M type Ciphrang.
Honor the Niom? Niom is my middle name.